YMCA

Much has been said and written about the City of Mt. Juliet’s plan to purchase the 12 acre site of the former Mt. Juliet Elementary School and donate 8 of the 12 acres to the YMCA.

The Wilson County Commission passed a resolution in December of 2007 laying out the terms they would agree to. That Resolution (07-12-3) gave the City 60 days to respond, “or the offer shall be considered withdrawn.” The 60 days expired in February of 2008. Mt. Juliet didn’t take any action on the offer until much later.

The proposal finally adopted by a 3-2 vote of the City Commission, directed the City Manager to buy the property from the County and stated the Commissions intention to use the proceeds of the new hotel/motel tax to pay the five annual installments of $210,000. Whether the hotel/motel tax will actually yield $210,000 per year is a matter of some debate.

In addition to paying the County $1,050,000 over five years, the County also stipulated that the County “will be relieved of any obligation to contribute to the construction of improvements to Curd Road. . .  The Nine Hundred Fifty Thousand Dollars ($950,000) previously discussed as a contribution by Wilson County, Tennessee shall be credited to the purchase price and Wilson County, Tennessee shall have no further obligation to the construction of improvements to Curd Road.”

You can read the County’s Resolution (07-12-3) here.

84 responses to “YMCA

  1. Butch Huber

    Hey Folks,

    I have been trying for some time now to stop this project. I don’t like the idea of using taxpayer money to build a YMCA. But if we are going to do this it has to be legal. That is where the commission is going to run into trouble. They can’t, in my opinion, make this deal work without violating the law in some way.

    I have been asking the commission where they intend to come up with the money to pay the $950,000 credit they must give the county under the proposed deal. They ignored me. Then, I approached Mr. Sellers and addressed him directly. He said he felt that I was wrong and that the county was offering to give the city a $950,000 “discount”. I then approached the city attorney who also stated that he read the county resolution offering the Old MJES site for sale to the city as giving the city a $950,000 discount. I couldn’t believe my ears! So, I called the county mayor, the county attorney, and about 15 county commissioners and I told each of them that the city was saying that the county is giving the city a $950,00o discount on the Old MJES site. They assured me that they were in fact not giving the city a discount at all, but that the $950,000 in question was money that the city must spend to upgrade the reverse L portion of Curd Road and that any contract for the purchase of that land will include a provision that the city obligate itself to upgrade the reverse L portion of Curd Road by a definite deadline or the city will have to pay the county $2,000,000 in cash.

    Now, you may not be aware of what is going on, so I will give you a brief on the subject. The county board of education decided to build the high school down Curd Road. The School is located in the county, as is the road near the school. There is a portion of Curd Road that is considered to be dangerous and that needs to be enhanced and upgraded. That portion of Curd Road is the responsibility of the county to upgrade.
    There was a committee put together a couple years ago that was comprised of people from the county and people from the city. That committee determined that the county’s portion of the costs to upgrade Curd Road came to $950,000. (that number would be closer to $1.8 million now that oil prices have gone up and because asphalt is largely made from oil.)
    The county doesn’t have the money it needs to pay for the upgrades to Curd Road. But what the county does have is 12 acres of land that the city wants to buy, called the Old MJES site.
    The county offered (in a now dead resolution) to sell the land to the city for $2,000,000. They said that they would take $1,050,000 in cash in five annual payments of $210,000 each starting in September and they would take a credit from the city for the remaining $950,000 toward the construction costs of curd road. Another provision that the county stipulated in their resolution was that the city relieve the county of any further financial obligation for that portion of Curd Road.

    Now, there are city commissioners who are trying to make this deal go through. Here is what is wrong with that deal. The city doesn’t have the $1.8 million needed to upgrade Curd Road without using Bond Funds to pay for it, and if they make upgrading curd road a provision of the sale of that land, they have to pay for the costs for the upgrade out of the general fund, and not through bond funds. They simply can’t legally fulfill the obligations that the county will stipulate in their contract for the purchase of that land. However, if I wasn’t hard on their case over this they would be able to slip this through and probably get away with it. The reason being is because it is so abstract that you really have to be paying attention or you will miss it.

    Rest assured, if there is a deal with the county on the Old MJES site, the county commissioners, as well as the county attorney, I spoke to will make sure that the city has to obligate itself to upgrade Curd Road as a part of the deal. If the city uses bond funds to conclude any part of that deal they will have to answer to the Federal Government for their actions. I am sick and tired of my government trying to skirt the law and get away with things, but I am even more sick and tired of watching them get away with it!

  2. Butch Huber

    Just when you think it is dead, up it pops again! They are planning to approve a letter of intent of some sort or another at the commission meeting tonight! At least it is on the agenda anyway. I can’t make the meeting tonight, but I hope the cabal will be represented properly.

    They are doing whatever it is in this letter of intent by way of resolution rather than ordinance so that it only has to go through one reading instead of two. I wonder what slippery, sneaky, underhanded move they are trying to make now!

    How about this letter of intent? YMCA, we are not intending to support you financially, or do anything for you we wouldn’t do for any other business, but we don’t intend to get in your way, either. Of course, I guess, that you be a letter of unintent, not a letter of “intent”.

    Why can’t these yahoos figure out that the public at large really isn’t behind what they are doing and that it is a misuse of taxpayer’s money?

  3. Butch Huber

    They took the YMCA letter of intent off the table! They didn’t get the letter until 4:30 on Monday and it appears that Linda Elam wanted time to read through it. Linda did the right thing.

    Now, I need to go to city hall and request a copy of the letter of intent so that we all know what it says.

  4. Butch Huber

    Okay, so I have done some research. The County Board of Education had an appraisal of the Old Elementary School done back when they owned the property. The appraisal was $2.8 million. The school was still on the property at the time. The Board of Education put the property on the market for $2.8 Million dollars. The board of education owed the county $2 million dollars at the time. The property wasn’t moving, ostensibly because nobody wanted to have to deal with the school and the mold problem and all. Eventually, the School Board simply transferred the property to the county in return for the forgiveness of debt of the $2 million. The County paid $189,000 (I was wrong, I thought it was $950,000) to have the school removed from the property. So now the County has $2,189,000 in that property (The $2 million the BOE owed them and the $189,000 to remove the school). The county hasn’t put the property on the market.

    So, here we are a few years after the appraisal of $2.8 million, the school that was supposedly devaluing the property is now gone, and the city thinks it is going to be able to purchase this property from the county for $1,050,000. Clearly the property is worth three times that amount now (the school is gone and property values in Mt. Juliet are significantly higher now than they were three to five years ago.)

    Someone please tell me why the county would let this prime piece of real estate, worth at least $3,000,000 go for only $1,050,000 so that the city of Mt. Juliet can then essentially give two thirds of the land away to the the YMCA in a 99 year lease? Why wouldn’t the county just lease the property to the YMCA directly and then sell the other third outright?

    Many county commissioners assured me that they would not vote to sell this land to the city for less than $2,000,000. So what is going on? Has there been some back-room deals going on? Folks, I think there needs to be some questions asked and answered here?

    As a citizen of the county I will be appalled if the county allows the city to have this property for $1,050,000 so that they can give the property away to the YMCA in a 99 year lease when the county could sell the property on the open market for much more money and then use the proceeds to provide fire protection.

    Every citizen of the county and every emergency responder should be contacting their county commissioner and telling them not to vote to give this land to the city at such a cheap price. You should also be calling your city commissioner and the mayor and telling them to back out of this deal immediately.

  5. Butch Huber

    I got to thinking about what this commission has tried to do with this memorandum of understanding. It didn’t hit me right away, but now that I think about the effect I can’t believe I missed it.

    The commission, at least three of them anyway, are determined to continue to go down this path with the YMCA regardless of how lame-brained it is. So they bring forth this memorandum of understanding with the YMCA. We know, and I think the mayor even stated it in the commission meeting, that the purpose of this measure was to force it on the next commission. However, what it did in effect is force it on you and I (Well, if it was worth the paper it was written on it would have anyway.) If it was written properly (from the perspective of the YMCA) it would give the YMCA teeth if the city didn’t follow through and conclude this deal if it could conclude this deal.

    So what does that mean? It means that the city, an entity that is considering purchasing a piece of land for the purpose of giving it to another entity for use, is going on the hook if they don’t follow through. In other words, they set themselves up to be sued in court and have to shell out significant amounts of money to defend the city, and possibly even suffer monetary losses for breach of agreement (Again, if the letter actually meant anything in the first place.). Now, ask yourself, if you were working to develop a deal to help another person, would you enter into an agreement that would then allow them to sue you if you didn’t conclude the deal? You are acting from the goodness of your heart (in this case it is more like the blackness of their hearts) to help another entity, and for some strange reason you enter into an agreement that helps them “Make” you conclude the deal? How stupid is that?

    Lucky for us the letter was illegal before it was approved. (Mr. Robertson, I know you are reading my posts now, and I know you keep saying “Mr. Huber, these guys have degrees to hang on the wall that says they are lawyers” whenever you and I have disagreements about the law, but right about now I think I am batting close to, or at, a thousand, and have been for about 5 to 6 years.) Trust me, this letter has no meaning whatsoever and if the city wants to walk away from it today the YMCA would lose if it pursued the city. That letter is useless. The whole thing was nothing but a sham to make us think, and perhaps the next commission think, that it is enforceable.

    Folks, this commission is trying to hamstring the next commission and they know that the letter of the law and the spirit of the law says that you cannot obligate the next commission.

    Take for instance this contract with Randy Robertson. This commission was trying to make sure that the next commission couldn’t fire Randy without having to pay a significant severance package. Ironic that this same commission pulled an illegal maneuver in order to avoid paying Rob’s severance package, then they turn around and try to give Randy the same severance package. Now, they think that the contract with Randy is legal and binding, however I think you will clearly see that it isn’t. It could have been legal, had they done it right, but they are not intelligent enough to figure out how to do it. Let’s take his contract to an extreme and you will see that it isn’t legal. Let’s say that this commission were to enter into an agreement with Mr. Robertson for a thirty year employment contract. That contract would obligate not only the next commission, but the next 15 commissions. Would that pass scrutiny? I don’t think so. State law mandates that during the first year of employment for a city manager he or she cannot be fired without cause or there has to be a pay-out to the city manager. The reason for that provision is to help stop politics from doing damage to the new city manager, give him or her a running start, to ensure that they do their due diligence in selecting a city manager in the first place, and to make sure that a person doesn’t move to an area for that job only to lose it in three months. The state, which has overriding governing authority over the city, put that provision or requirement on all cities in Tennessee. The state has the authority to make that requirement. However, the state also had the wisdom and foresight to understand that a year is sufficient. Any more than a year and they are subverting the will of the people.

    This commission couldn’t care less about the will of the people, or the sanctity of the electoral process, they only care that they hamstring the next commission with what it is that they want.

    Mayor Elam went to great lengths to ensure that Randy kept his job and was locked in for two years, I remember talk in the meeting when they approved this agreement about what the next commission might do, it is clear that they were worried that the next commission would come in and fire Randy and replace him right away. Randy doesn’t know Linda very well. She went to bat for him and yet he is working hard against her on this YMCA deal. Linda, for one reason or another, is opposed to the YMCA deal, I am convinced of that, and Randy is acting counter to the ordinance that was passed directing him to purchase that land and how to purchase it. This won’t bode well for Randy if Linda is somehow able to stay in office. If she wins that election, which I don’t see happening, his days are numbered in my opinion. You see, his employment contract is not enforceable, and therefore of no effect. He has no contract in my opinion.

    Here’s why I say that his contract is of no effect. If you and I were to get together and sign a contract with another person for the city of Mt. Juliet, would it be of effect? No. Why? Because we had no authority to enter into that agreement in the first place. The commission has an obligation not to exceed its authority as well, and if they enter into an agreement that exceeds their authority the city isn’t obligated there either. The contract with Mr. Robertson exceeds their authority. From my vantage point the next commission has full legal authority to come in on day one and fire Mr. Robertson and they will owe him no severance whatsoever. (Mr. Robertson, you will discover in time that a person need not have a law degree to understand the rule of law.) Mr. Robertson is not protected by the first year provision beyond his first year of employment and this new employment agreement is of no effect…he is literally unprotected, and I think Linda knows that. That knowledge may be her ace in the hole if she were to be re-elected. Randy, Rob spent several years hearing about how she was the only thing keeping him in his job, do you think it will be different for you?

    Folks, the current city attorney couldn’t read the county resolution and discern that in order for the city to purchase that land the city would have to give the county a $950,000 credit toward the build out of Curd Road. Even after I pointed it out to him he still disagreed. I called the county attorney, the county mayor, and 12 to 15 county commissioners, and not one of them disagreed with my interpretation. It is clear as a bell what they were asking for, yet he can’t see it. Now they entered into an agreement with the YMCA based on their erroneous interpretation of that resolution.

    If this deal were to be pulled off at $1,050,000, and there wasn’t a full-blown investigation, it would be a travesty of justice. (Like that would be a new thing, right?). $3 million dollars of land being transferred to the city of Mt. Juliet for $1,050,000? And that shouldn’t raise eyebrows?

    I have a much better idea, how about the county puts that land up for sale for $3,000,000 and uses whatever they get to help with the fire protection issues in this county: Even if that money isn’t spent in Mt. Juliet? Wouldn’t the $3,000,000 go a long way to improving fire protection?

    Folks, ask yourself, is it better to use $3,000,000 dollars worth of assets to improve fire protection and citizen safety when there is an obvious need in that area or would it be better to give that to the YMCA? If you think that it would be better to use that money for fire protection then call your county commissioner and voice your opinion. If the county and the city conclude this deal, and someone gets hurt or dies because of inadequate fire protection or emergency services, this debacle will come back to haunt them like a nightmare running on loop.

    Every fire fighter and emergency responder in this county should be up in arms. They are being told that they can’t have proper equipment and that they can’t have raises, while a deal like this is being hammered out? Why shouldn’t they be upset?

    I don’t think the county is going to go for this deal, at least as it is being presented to the public, so I don’t think there is anything to worry about, but for safe measure, call your commissioner.

  6. Brent Dyer

    I guarantee that my colleagues and I will be on this like a rabid spider monkey.

    I want to personally thank every citizen and neighbor in this community who continues to stand up for what is right. I hope that if we can unite and be heard at the right time, in the right places then maybe lives will be protected more effectively and efficiently, and our tax dollars will be put to better use to sustain our existence and the future of our families.

  7. Lex Luther

    Here is an interesting link on Ted Floyd’s website titled:
    2 million reasons to vote for Ted!

    http://tedfloyd.com/Data%20Links/Better%20Financial%20Planning.htm

  8. Butch Huber

    That’s beautiful! Two million saved in one vote! That has sizzle, and to think we heard it here first!

  9. Looking Toward The Future

    Looks like Ted is following that Brydalski kids lead… Nobody wants to be connected with Ray.

  10. Brent Dyer

    Johnathan Brydalski,

    Please call me again, my phone met an unfortunate demise and I lost all my contacts…

    Thanks,

    Brent Dyer
    615-440-6657
    mbdyer@tds.net

  11. I for one was glad to see the commissioner’s terms were up. I’ve lived here for the past 3 years and have been generally disgusted with the Council attitudes. They love the tax dollars they get from Providence, but are jealous of it. I believe Elam is on record somewhere saying she “doesn’t want Mount Juliet to be known for Providence…” Not a good attitude. Having things at Charlied Daniels Park is a nightmare as getting out of there sucks so badly. I’m somewhat pleased when I hear Bradshaw being the only one that has “some sense” on the whole Council, but don’t really know much about him. Opinions anyone (I figured some of you have lived here a lot longer than myself).

  12. Mark Charest

    How about we solve the School Board budget crisis by selling the MJES land for market value. I have read the BOE Fiscal Budget 08-09 and the only line items in all 16 pages that are really increasing are busing, diesel fuel, gas, electricity, and teacher benefits. It’s time to bring Wilson County’s school system into the 21st Century.

  13. Plato

    That should be up to the county. From what I heard the city is trying again to obtain that land even though the county doesn’t have an offer to them. It is like if you were to try and buy a new car for last years sale price…just doesn’t work.

  14. Chris Sorey

    Whether the land is for sale or not, it can only be sold once and one time money will not solve the issue.

  15. Mark Charest

    No, one time money won’t solve the issue, but that money should go to the school system rather than collecting dust. Every dollar will be useful. After last night’s County Commission meeting, I’m convinced that most of the commissioners are only out for themselves and are completely out of step with an aggresive growth county. Changes need to be made!

  16. Chris Sorey

    Mark,

    The money for the old MJE propery went to the school system a long time ago. The Board of Education gave the land to the county and in return, the county relieved some of their debt. This was before my time, but Mike Davis confirmed that for me last week.

    Curious about your statement that most are out for themselves. Care to expand on that?

  17. Mark Charest

    Yes,

    It seems that we are NOT one county and there is a lot of contention between the west side of Wilson County and the east. Last nights’ budget meeting was a no brainer, yet it was almost lost. I am not convinced that we have the right people on the County Commission to manage our growth and have a vision for the future. In regards to the MJES site…….the county can still do what ever it wants to with the money. My thought was if we had a budget shortfall for the year and they had an asset, they should sell it.

  18. Chris Sorey

    It was close. One commissioner voted for the budget, but then he did not vote for the tax increase to fund the budget which would have killed the budget. He knew what he was doing, in that the tie breaking vote was to be cast by the county mayor. He was then able to say he did not vote for the tax. Politics and nothing more. No secret there.

    The one issue I hear over and over with the old MJE site, is the zoning. With the current zoning, it is worth half of what it could bring. We are somewhat at the mercy of MJ on that, and I doubt there will be any change on that in the near future given the stance on the Y and the city being the biggest supporter.

    I hope we can agree to spend one time money on one time expenses.

  19. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    Buildings for fire departments are one time money. Ladder Trucks, while not “one” time money, would be a good investment for that money. I agree that one time money shouldn’t be used for continuing expenses, however, you must agree that the county selling this land on the open market and using the money to offset an expense of some type is better than the city pulling a lame-brained stunt like giving that land to the YMCA, right?

  20. Chris Sorey

    Buildings are one time money, but then those buildings need to be staffed. Staffing is expensive, and training takes time. The current building is not large enough to house a ladder truck and it has other issues as well, but if we are just putting up a new building to put it up, there is no real benefit. Again, there are parts of the county that pay the same tax dollars on an individual basis, who are in the unincorporated areas, who are many miles from a station. Not just for fire protection, but EMS as well. The newest station does not have an ambulance stationed there. I hope that we can use some growth money to fund additional needs in this side of the budget. Again, hope…

    My thoughts on the Y are simple. If they (MJ) get it done, give them enough land to do it right. Four acres was not enough land to place a Y. Eight is a little better. When the vote was taken, I gave up at the time because there seemed there was nothing I could do. Now that there is something I can do, I will do what I can on the county level to try and convince MJ that the free land at Beckwith is a much better idea. In other words, I won’t beat my head against a wall, but I will try to move the wall.

  21. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    Trust me on this one….but then check it out for yourself. The county passed a resolution back in December of last year through which they offered the Old MJES site to the city for $1,050,000 “and” a credit of $950,000 toward the county’s obligations on Curd Road construction. That county resolution had a sunset, or termination, clause under which the resolution was to be considered “terminated” after 60 days if Mt. Juliet failed to act on it. The city failed to act on it within the 60 days. In fact, they still haven’t acted on it. The city ordinance directing city manager Randy Robertson to purchase the land and then give it to the YMCA is not a legal ordinance and as such does not constitute an act. However, even if it were a legal ordinance it would have been too late to qualify as an act that satisfies the county resolution. One, because it was too late, and, two, because it isn’t an acceptance of the county’s offer. It is a counter-offer generated by the city to purchase the land under different terms and price points than what the county resolution spells out. The county resolution/offering the land to the city has expired.

    Now, in order for any deal on that land to be legal, it has to make it past the county commissioners in yet another vote. That means that you will have an opportunity to stop it from happening.

    There are a couple other issues that will kill this YMCA deal before it even gets started, however, a strong message from the county commission to the city of Mt. Juliet that the county will not take $1,050,000 for that land (as this commission and city attorney seem determined that they will) would probably end the discussion once and for all.

    I don’t believe the city can legally make this thing happen before the new commission is in place anyway, and hopefully Ray will gone after the next election and this deal will simply drop off the charts because neither of the other candidates (district one please pay attention to this one) are in favor of that deal….at least that is what I have been told.
    District one….Ray Justice is trying to make you spend valuable tax dollars to provide a nice big wet kiss on the lips to the YMCA. Vote Ray out and the deal is dead!

    I will explain why I believe the city commission can’t get this deal done before the next commission is seated when the time is right. However, even if I am wrong, and they can get this deal done before the next commission is seated, I believe the next commission would have time to unwind the deal before it is too late.

  22. Lex Luther

    The YMCA giveaway only goes away if Ray Justice loses. Hagerty and Sellers are the other two votes for this and they are coming back.

    2 million more reasons to vote for Ted Floyd:

    http://tedfloyd.com/Data%20Links/Better%20Financial%20Planning.htm

  23. Mark Charest

    I’m a little confused as to why the citizens of Mt. Juliet do not know this information. Every neighbor I’ve talked to doesn’t know anything about it. You would think Mt. Juliet News would have it on the front page so all voters can see it.

  24. Looking Toward The Future

    Lex, I don’t think Ted is the only person leaning this way. I think the Brydalski kid was pioneering this idea long before Ted jumped on his coattails. Doesn’t seem like Ted has many new ideas.

  25. Lex Luther

    There are a bunch of issues the newspapers do not cover.

    I bet you didn’t know that most of the Mt. Juliet Chamber of Commerce members want a property tax. That’s because most of them live just outside the city and won’t pay it anyway! The Mt. Juliet News and Lebanon Democrat have editorialized in favor of a property tax.

    Most developers are Republicans but they want Mt. Juliet to have a property tax too. That is because they would rather the taxpayers pay the cost of growth – instead of them.

    That should give you pause when you see all the Marlowe for Mayor signs on land owned by all the major developers. I hear the Chamber is getting behind Marlowe too. There really are not a lot of votes there because the pro-tax faction does not live inside the city.

    The newspapers don’t point this out because the realtors and business owners are their advertisers.

    Thank goodness the truth can be told here!

  26. Lex Luther

    Ted will win 2 to 1. People know him and trust him.

    They don’t know Brydalski and they can’t trust Justice.

  27. Looking Toward The Future

    I think more people know that Brydalski kid than you realize. People in Mt Juliet have spoken over and over again that they want a change. This includes getting rid of the incumbents with NEW faces, not the same old biased views. It is about time we look toward the future. I’m guessing the kid gets 45%, Winston gets 30%, and Ray might get 25%.

  28. Butch Huber

    Getting people to radiofree is the only way that they will be up-to-date and informed on what is going on in this city. Tell your friends, tell your family, and tell your neighbors about this site.

    At the end of the day, unless we get rid of Ray, the YMCA is on its way.

  29. Lex Luther

    Floyd will surprise you. He knows a lot of people.

    But anyone is better than Ray.

  30. Butch Huber

    Looking;

    I realize you want to see “new” faces on the commission. I suppose when you say that what you are really saying is that we need a break from what we have been seeing regarding alliances with developer and special interest groups. As you travel about town please observe where you find Ray Justice Signs. You will develop a keen sense of the obvious that Ray Justice and Wendell Marlowe are connected. It appears that everywhere you see a Justice sign you see a Marlowe sign. Isn’t that interesting to you?

    Now, Marlowe may be a great guy for all I know, but he can’t escape the fact that his salary comes from property taxes, so he can’t really distance himself from the property tax crowd, can he? Also notice where you see Marlowe signs geographically. They seem to mostly be on the lots of developers, people connected to developers, and the property tax crowd.

    There really are only two question marks in this race…Brydalski and Marlowe. We already can tell where Floyd will stand on issues, we already know where Mack will come down on the issues, we already know that Linda and Ray need to go, so the questions are Brydalski and Marlowe. I have met with Brydalski personally. He seems like a nice enough person, but until he convinces me that he is not connected to Justice there is no way that I would vote for him if I lived in his district. Marlowe is the biggest question mark for me. The question I keep asking myself is why does he seem so connected to Justice?

    I am not sure that “new” faces is what we need, Looking. I think “different” faces may be what we need. Meaning “different” than what is one the commission right now.

  31. Looking Toward The Future

    Hey Butch. I have met the Brydalski kid several times over a cup of coffee. From my conversations with him I am convinced he is not connected with Ray. I think Ray IS the reason he wants to win, to get rid of the old,worn out baggage on this commission. Brydalski has some good ideas, maybe you need to call him and discuss his plans. Ted would be more likely connected with Ray, no chance for him to win so why not mess up the vote.

  32. Butch Huber

    Looking,

    I have met with Brydalski, we’ve talked. I don’t “think” he is connected with Ray, but I don’t “know” he isn’t either. I want to see the definite separation. I want there to be no doubt that Brydalski isn’t a spoiler put in the race by Ray. That isn’t too much to ask is it?

  33. Looking Toward The Future

    Have you asked him? How does one give proof? I have had coffee with him in the past and I would never think he is connected. He has many new ideas that Ray (or Ted for that matter) could ever have thought of.

  34. Butch Huber

    Looking,

    It isn’t about what he “tells” me, its about what he “shows” me. There is a saying out there…”what you do speaks so loudly that what you say I cannot hear”. I would like to “see” that he isn’t in Ray’s camp, not “hear” that he isn’t.

    The way that you provide proof is you burn your bridges. You make declarative public statements that inextricably bind you to your position. Brydalski is largely an unknown in public. There is no way for us to know where he stands or who he stands with until he “shows” us.

    I hope he does have new ideas, and whether or not he wins, I hope he shares them with us. But if he hopes to win, he is going to have to separate himself from Justice. Until that time, until he makes the definite separation from Justice, I think this is largely a two man race…Justice against Floyd. I could be wrong, but that is how I feel.

  35. Chris Sorey

    Butch,
    You had never heard of Sarah Palin before a few weeks ago. Since Brydalski is not running in your district, I doubt you will hear fom him unless you call him yourself. I doubt Floyd or Justice will call on you either. Try calling them instead.

    I have to disagree with your statement about burning bridges. He doesn’t need to provide proof by burning bridges. He (Brydalski) and the others need to get out and talk to the people in the district. If they start burning bridges, it will turn into a negative campaign, and nobody needs that. How are any of the candidates supposed to make declaritive statements to the public? The old fashioned way, which is one on one. Again, we aren’t in that district, so it is doubtful that they would spend a lot of time with us. I have heard from all three, and they all have good ideas.

    I do know one thing, he (Brydalski) convinced my father to vote for him and the way he did that was by taking a weedeater over to the old MJE property and earning a blister or two. When the city and the county were pointing fingers, a couple of people went and took care of the problem, and Brydalski was one of them.

  36. Lex Luther

    I agree with Butch on this one. But anyone is better than Ray.

    A Ray Justice win will cost the taxpayers 2 million dollars. Maybe more if he can figure out how to buy the Feenor rock swamp.

  37. Nathan Clariday

    Brydalski is not in anyone’s camp. I believe both Brydalski and Floyd have tried to distance themself from Justice. The only way I know this is that both Brydalski and Floyd have come by my business to talk about Lebanon Road. While Justice hasn’t come by “the red light distict” and would rather slander our homes and businesses from city hall.

  38. Sean Evans

    Butch, can you please explain the opening to your post? “I don’t like the idea of using taxpayer money to build a YMCA.”

    Which taxpayer money is going to be used exactly? We don’t pay any property taxes to the city do we? Are my county tax dollars going to be used somehow?

    I personally would like to see a YMCA or public pool / recreation area built somewhere in the city. The lack of facilities in our area is pathetic. I think a project like this would positively impact housing values, and if built on the old elementary school property would certainly be more pleasing than say, a gas station or something. I understand that the zoning is “town center” but that concept sure hasn’t materialized into any type of reality.

    Just trying to understand all of this!

  39. Butch Huber

    Sean,

    I too would love to see a YMCA (but not a public pool) and a recreation area in the city. I agree the lack of facilities in our area is pathetic. I agree that an improvement in the available amenities in the area would increase property values (to a degree). We agree on those things.

    Using public money to fund private industry is a bad thing. If government would keep its hands out of things we wouldn’t have near the problems we experience in society.

    Here is the low-down on the YMCA/Old MJES site “taxing us to pay for this gift issue”.

    Sean, you have to consider that most, if not all, taxes end up in the general fund. When the government uses one of its taxing mechanisms to raise capital for one project, it at the same time decreases its opportunity to use that mechanism to raise capital for another project. That is the case with the YMCA. Ray Justice declared that the newly enacted hotel/motel tax will pay the bill for the YMCA donation. That isn’t true. But before we go down that road let me fill you in on the hotel/motel tax.

    The hotel/motel tax was enacted on the premise that they would use that tax to increase parks and recreation and fund improvement of the same. Now, mind you, most cities that enact a hotel/motel tax do so in order to develop funds to promote tourism, not to increase the quality of life for the citizens of the area. Parks and recreation are not really going to impact “tourism” in Mt. Juliet. This tax was enacted to bilk money from tourists to pay for “parks and recreation”, and then once they had it in place, they changed the ordinance enacting the tax so that they can use it to fund the donation to the YMCA. Ray is trying to say that it doesn’t cost you and I anything because people who don’t live here are paying the bill. Ray simply doesn’t understand how things get done in the real world of commerce.

    That having been said, the hotel/motel tax collections are not sufficient to finance the purchase. The reality is that the hotel/motel tax will fail to pay that bill by half. It would appear that you and I have to pay the difference, but the reality is that we are paying all of it. If the city spends one red cent out of the general, or even special funds for that matter, they are spending “our” money. Now, whenever the parks and recreation need more money they have to get it from somewhere else other than the hotel/motel tax because they are spending it all on the YMCA deal and then some. Also, if they ever do try to increase tourism in Mt. Juliet they will need to come up with that money from somewhere else as well.

    Look at the city’s coffers as your, and my, bank account. You and I can’t go and spend that money, but we contribute to it whenever we purchase something. But it doesn’t stop there. The city is in effect “our” business. If it loses money, you and I have to make up the shortfall. So, when they spend money on things that we don’t “have” to have, and then later need more money than they have, guess what….they enact a property tax. However, even if they don’t enact a property tax, if they appropriate money to the YMCA project they don’t have that money to build roads or infrastructure. Roads and infrastructure increase property values as much or more than a public pool or a donation to the YMCA. Roads make room for commerce. Commerce brings cash registers, which in turn bring sales tax receipts, which enable further growth, which increases sales tax receipts. . The YMCA doesn’t pay taxes and an investment there really won’t increase commerce.

    The YMCA deal will suck money from the city coffers, and the money in the city coffers, no matter where it comes from, is your money and my money. They are literally giving away our money! If the city can tax me without limitation through property taxes, which it can, then the bank accounts of the city are mine as well. Same holds true for you.

    Sean, I will give you more information on this in the coming weeks. I am holding back for now…I don’t want them to know what I am up to or where the next thing is coming from until it is on its way.

  40. Nathan Clariday

    You are correct; we do not have a property tax….yet. We do have sales tax; which is our tax money. This will go to fund the Y because the hotel tax is not going to generate 250,000 a year.

  41. Nathan Clariday

    I got a question for everybody. Where did the money from the 10 million dollar bond issue go? I know 1 mil or so went to the pound. But where is the other 9 mill that was going to the road………

  42. Man of the People!

    If Brydalski spends alot of time at the Little League park don’t rule out that he hangs with Ray.

    Many suspected Jarod Scott was Ray’s wing man in 2004.

    Ted is a known quantity and can be trusted. it’s just a question of whether you agree with him or not.

  43. Chris Sorey

    Some of the baseless accusations on here are getting out of hand and in particular, the accusations that anyone is a wing man. Check your facts. Brydalski was the first to pull a petition, and the first to turn it in. None of the three candidates for district 1 are tied to each other or a wing man for anyone else.

    A few years back, a candidate for district 1 pulled out of the race after early voting had opened, and then that candidate was given a seat on the planning commission. Was that person a wing man?

    On a seperate note, the bond issue was more or less a line of credit. I’m not sure how long it is good for, but it did not go into the general fund.

  44. Paul Deyo

    Chris, I am the person you just mentioned and I considered myself a serious candidate. In retrospect I didn’t have the money or the name recognition to win and recognized that late in the race.

    But my real reason for leaving the race is because my mother was terminally ill and I had priorities more important than an election.

    Until now I had a positive opinion of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. And by the way I am still on the Planning Commission as it’s Chairman.

  45. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    I am not “accusing” Brydalski of being in Ray’s camp, but I don’t “know” that he isn’t in Ray’s camp either. As you said, I won’t be voting for Ray, Brydalski or Floyd, and neither will you (But then here you are again). However, an awful lot of people are now coming to this site for their news about Mt. Juliet, and since I am one of the more frequent posters on this site, and since I am one they see taking this commission to task in public meetings, I am going to opine.

    Brydalski is pretty much the unknown variable here. He seems to be bright, concerned, and he seems to have at least a rudimentary plan. He recently asked to meet with me, I agreed, and during that conversation he asked me what is it going to take for him to win. I told him that I felt the best possible way to win against Ray is to only have one person in the race against Ray. The only reason, in my opinion, that Ray is even in office right now is because he always enjoys the hometown boy advantage in a three-way race. A large portion of the population here see Justice as “Ray-Ray, the little boy that grew up here”; they “know” him. The vote is always split, and he wins. However, I don’t think he has ever won with more than about 40 percent of the vote. I told him that I felt that the best thing for the city would be for either him or Floyd to drop out of the race. However, before I would do anything at all to even try to help him win, I would need to know for sure that he wasn’t in Ray’s camp. I don’t mind telling you that I am a little concerned about a three way race. Ray has been successful in winning three way races. I believe Floyd will eventually win out in this race because he is a known entity, he has served this community for a very long time, he is a veteran, and everyone pretty much knows that Floyd “ISN’T” in Ray’s camp (Just because they vote for “Ray-Ray” doesn’t mean that they “like” him, they may vote for him because they “know” him), but I don’t like leaving things to chance. Considering the fact that Ray knows that he has won three-way races, and he probably knows that he can’t win a two man race (Especially after this land swap deal he tried to pull and the YMCA deal he is trying to pull), it would make sense that he would get a friend to join the race, get him to convince Floyd to drop out (As Brydalski had already proposed to Floyd before Brydalski and I met), wait until it is too late to do anything about it, then drop out himself, leaving Ray as the only candidate. Even if Floyd didn’t drop out, if there was a third man in the race, it would increase Ray’s chances. What I am telling Brydalski here, because I know he reads this, and what I was trying to tell him when I met him, is that if he has any real hope of winning this election, he will make sure that the voters are convinced that he isn’t in Ray’s camp. “IF” I were voting in district 1, and I wanted to make sure that Ray wasn’t re-elected, I would vote for the known entity. For all I know Brydalski might be the better candidate for the job, but I would do everything I could to get Ray out, which would force me to vote for Floyd (I don’t know Floyd very well, but I know him well enough to know that he isn’t a Ray Justice fan.)

    There are at least two million Rea$on$ that another term for Ray i$n’t a good thing for Mt. Juliet. Vote Ray out and the YMCA land grant boondoggle is DOA (Dead On Arrival). Vote for Ray and you are voting for the YMCA deal. (The YMCA is Ray’s pet project and he will stop at nothing until he gets it through if he is re-elected. BTW, mentioning “Stop at nothing”, did you know that he championed the change in the ethics ordinance so that he has a 30 day statute of limitations, so that you have to actually be a witness of an ethics violation in order to file a complaint, and so that you have to include a lot of information about yourself and file a sworn statement in order to file a complaint now? So much for the “whistleblower concept” in Mt. Juliet.) Brydalski can make the separation if he chooses to, and he has been advised by at least myself to make the separation (I believe there have been others who have delivered the same advise as well..and judging by the fact that he was trying to get Floyd to drop out, I would suggest he knows it too), if he chooses not to make the separation that is his choice, but he has to live with the choices he makes. This is big boy stuff, and as far as I am concerned, until he personally and publicly makes the separation from Ray, politically, I have to consider him to be, by default, “in” Ray’s camp and I have to encourage people to vote for Floyd. I know that a vote for Floyd is a vote to end this $2,000,000 YMCA gift! We can’t afford four more years of Ray Justice.

    On a side note, Chris, it is obvious to me that you are fairly cozy with Ray. Your previous posts reveal more than you would like. There are things that you have posted and issues you have gotten involved with that point to a connection between yourself and Ray. So, if you will excuse me, your admonishments here about “baseless accusations getting out of hand”, and that “nobody is anyone’s wing man”, don’t carry a lot of weight as far as I am concerned. It works in Ray’s favor for your to try to influence people toward believing that there is no connection between Ray and Brydalski. If Ray can convince people that there is a three-way race he further splits the vote and improves his chances. How are we to know that you aren’t working to help Ray do just that? You would be well within your rights to champion Ray’s cause, I stand for your right to do so, but let’s be honest, you “want” Ray to win, don’t you?

    Chris, you are right about the money not going into the general fund. However, the line of credit thing is something that I will have to look into further. It seemed to me that Regions bought the bond for somewhere around $9.6 million dollars, there is an interest schedule, and I believe that the money is deposited into a bank account somewhere. Now, it is possible that your are right, because the written statement does say something about paper transactions. Perhaps the money is in some sort of escrow account. I don’t have time right now to dig in, but I don’t believe they have stolen the money or anything. Eventually, they will have to transfer money into the general fund to pay for construction costs, but I am not sure that they have to transfer it right now. However, if Regions did purchase the bonds for $9.6 million, and if Regions did put the money up to purchase the bonds, it would seem to me that there would have to be an account holding that $9.6 million somewhere. Perhaps it is a line of credit per se, just as you claim.

    I will give you some kudos though, Chris, you do seem to be digging in and looking into things. You and I don’t always agree on things, in fact, we sure have had our differences, but at least you are looking and digging in.

  46. Looking Toward The Future

    Hey Man of the People,
    I think Brydalski is at the ballpark because his DAUGHTERS play softball. Doesn’t Ray have BOYS? Granted the softball fields and baseball fields are in the same ball park. What logic are you using for your post? I noticed you said Ted is a known quantity (as compared to saying quality).

  47. Sean Evans

    Butch, thanks for the detailed explanation! I really appreciate you volunteering your time to dissect and elaborate on these issues.

  48. Butch Huber

    Sean,

    You’re welcome.

  49. Shawn Donovan

    Paul,

    I can relate to the name recognition for the District 4 race. You did pretty good in 2002, without trying that hard then, since you didn’t loss by that big of a margin did you.

    We’ll see how it goes in 2010 with all the new residents in District 4…

  50. Chris Sorey

    Paul,
    Maybe it was not obvious enough but my post was directed towards you since you were the person making the completely baseless (no pun intended) accusation. While I did not know your specific reason for pulling out of the election many years ago, it is fact where your statement was accusatory with no fact other than they both have kids in little league.

    If you now have a negative opinion of me, please remember that I post under my name every time I post, whether the post is controversial or not. Not everyone does that, do they??? As far as money for a campaign, I spent less than $400 on mine and wore out a perfectly good pair of shoes.

    Butch,
    That’s all I know about the bond issue. I did remember it being said on ch3 and that’s the only reason I knew it. If you want me to be on record about the district 1 candidates, I have not supported anyone openly, and with the reputation I have at city hall I don’t know if it would hurt or help. The arrogance at MJ city hall is overwhelming, and I don’t think many who read this site would disagree. I have had a lot of support from everyday MJ citizens who said they were glad I exposed the fire issues. I think if you read my posts though you will come to some conclusions on your own.

  51. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    When you are right, you are right, they are arrogant.

    The whole idea of taking taxpayer money and spending it on a gift to the YMCA is the epitome of arrogance!

  52. Paul Deyo

    Chris,

    First of all you should realize I haven’t accused Mr. Brydalski of anything. If you look at the 2000 race, I was closest to BEING Mr. Brydalski. One has to wonder where you get your ‘information’.

    Secondly, by trotting out the phrase ‘baseless accusations’ and then making baseless accusations against me you espose yourself as nothing better than a word-twisting politician. You should have a bright career in Lebanon.

    Shawn, I did a lot of street time in my 2002 run. That race was yet another example of three candidates equaling an advantage for the incumbent. But Jim did win it fair and square and it really wasn’t that close.

  53. Looking Toward The Future

    Paul, I have to agree with Chris. Have you ever talked to that Brydalski kid? How well do you know him for suggesting your opinion of his intentions? Just because someone is new and not as well known as current/past city employees doesn’t make him a “wing man”. Like I mentioned in the past, I have had coffee with Jonathan and he seems to be well educated in the issues. Give him a call and decide for yourself. If you want give me your cell phone and I can pass it along to him during breakfast.

  54. Paul Deyo

    LTTF, did you even read my prior post? Look at the second sentence.

    Once again I have nothing against and have made no accusations against Mr. Brydalski. And if I were firmly in his corner it would be meaningless, as it should be for Mr. Sorey. Neither of us live in District One.

    I find it INCREDIBLY curious that Mr. Sorey would not only be aware of the 2000 District One commissioner’s race but that he would view it from the same very subjective perspective as a current candidate for that position. And that candidate is not Mr. Brydalski. Or Mr. Floyd.

  55. Chris Sorey

    Paul,
    While I will not argue with you over this subject, I will point out that I have lived in MJ since I was a child and my grandparents were here many years before the city was incorporated. I have my own historian. I remember going to the polls and actually voting for you during the early voting period, and then getting the Chronicle only to find out that you had pulled out of the race that late in the game.

    Mr. Deyo, before you continue to sling mud and dig a deeper hole, please realize that the little symbol at the top right of each and every post is not there for looks.

    In a nutshell, you are upset with me because you wrote a baseless acusation about someone you don’t even know, right? I tried to leave you an out on this to save some face, but you wouldn’t let it go.

  56. Paul Deyo

    Chris, what I am amused by is the firestorm that erupted after the comment by “Man of the People!”, which btw begins with the word “If”. That comment was not an accusation but a throwaway line that ended up being a fishing expedition by accident. I haven’t been near the ballpark in years. Not only do I not know Mr. Brydalski but I have no problem or issue with him at all.

    Your “baseless accusation” followed by the defense from LTTF begs the question “Who caught who?”

    I think we’ve beat this horse to death and neither one of us has any credibility with the other anyway so I will move on.

  57. Chris Sorey

    Paul,
    Before you move on, please realize that everyone knows you post under the other name when you want to make a negative comment, and that you made the initial accusation. The fact that you used the word “if” does not make the accusation any less of an accusation. You’re not the first to use multiple names on this blog, and I’m sure you will not be the last. Either way, take responsibility and stop acting as if you are an innocent victim.

  58. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    Wasn’t it you who was posting under the pseudonym “Common Sense”? Paul used to be Apolitical Observer as I remember. If I wasn’t the first on here to post under his real name, I was one of the first. I posted under my real name and too all of the pot shots that came from behind the veil. Only after a long time did you come out of the closet. Though you eventually came out of the closet, so-to-speak, it is ironic, if not hypocritical, for you to be lecturing or admonishing anyone for posting under a pseudonym (something that I haven’t ever done on this site).

    Paul came out of the closet also, for that I commend him, as I do you. I knew who you were long before you came out of the closet with your real name, as I did most who posted on here, but even when you and others were attacking me, I never outed one of you. (Well, I kind of outed John Reitz…but not directly) This site is about issues, not about the people reporting them…unless of course the issue being debated is about a politician, which is a horse of a different color.

    Brydalski, “probably” isn’t in Ray’s Camp, but until “he” develops a convincing persona that eliminates the “possibility” that he is, I would assume that he is and vote for the other guy. The stakes are too high to make a mistake that would put Ray back in office.

  59. Paul Deyo

    Common Sense, MotP is used for making irreverant or even slightly comical posts. I am surprised you were so totally offended. Like I said before, the comment was intended jokingly as Ray is known to politic at the ballpark. It accidentally became a somewhat revealing fishing expedition.

    I am surprised you aren’t haranguing the two posters operating as publicity for two D1 candidates. One of them anyway.

    Look at the article on one of the mayoral candidates, where I posted under my own name, at a comment far more controversial and likely to end my involvement with city government if that candidate wins.

  60. Chris Sorey

    Sorry Butch, but it is not hypocritical to change names such as when I dropped the alias and started posting under my own name, and of course when I began posting to this site I posted under Common Sense. What I would consider to be hypocritical is posting under one name, and then claiming to be the victim in a second post under a persons real name. I did not mention Deyo by name, only by the facts. Only Paul knows if he realized what he was writing was in fact his history when he was claiming someone “might” be a wingman. I hope we are done with this now.

    Deyo, feel free to call me anytime you wish, and until then, I will shrug off any remark you make about me being a politician. Honestly, I wouldn’t know who you were if you were right beside me. You obviously don’t know me either, do you?

  61. Chris Sorey

    After seeing my post above, I want to make it clear that I am not accusing anyone of being a wingman now or in the past. I wanted to make the point that the comment made by Deyo was very similar to the situation he was in when he ran a few years back.

    Butch,
    Sorry man but it sounds very irrational to say that Brydalski or anyone else should prove that they are not in anyone’s camp. Anyone could make that accusation against anyone. Remember innocent until proven guilty… Show me some proof. After speaking with all three of the candidates for district 1, which none of the people commenting on this live in, I believe all are sincere and none are in it to split the vote.

  62. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    The nice thing about being an American is that you are entitled to your opinion. I respect your opinion, I just don’t agree with you 100%. This is the real world of politics with real world stakes. Ray isn’t 100% bad, but he misses the mark enough where ethics are concerned that I sincerely hope he moves on. If you get real, you will realize that there are basically two camps to contend with in District One, those who are for Ray Justice and those who are not.

    I don’t think, and of course I could be wrong, as could you, that Brydalski is going to win “unless” he separates himself from Ray. Floyd on the other hand doesn’t have to do a thing in that regard because I believe the reason Floyd is in the race in the first place is because he can no longer stand by and watch what Ray is doing.

    You are guilty until proven innocent in a court of law, Chris, in the world of politics you are guilty by association.

  63. Butch Huber

    Hey Chris,

    I’ve got an idea for you. How about you sponsoring a county resolution to offer the old MJES site for sale to the general public? I mean, if you are the type of person who believes that there should be fairness and equity in everything the government does, should the general public have a crack at purchasing that land?

    The county may want to wait on selling that land until after the election. Turns out that three of the four people who were sitting on the Mayoral forum are in favor of doing away with, or drastically altering the Town Center, Village overlay restrictions, which would drastically increase the value of that land almost immediately. Perhaps you should start with a county resolution to put a moratorium on the sale of that land until further notice. That way, nobody could slip a fast one by the county commission and sell that land out from under the county…(as it appears that there is an effort afoot to do).

    Surely, you could get enough votes for one of those resolutions, couldn’t you, Chris?

  64. Juila Blount

    Is the YMCA deal dead or not? Will Summit Hospital buy the land? I’m confused . . .

    I hope the idiot(s) which supported the old MJ Elementary property lease/acquisitions deal for the “Y” are voted out of office. I’m not against the YMCA having a facility in Mt. Juliet. The organization provides vital services to communities and the world. However, giving away some of the most priceless real estate in the county away for nothing cannot help the taxpayer, unless the deal has merit.

    Please someone tell me why this piece of property should be given to the YMCA? How would any “city-owned” property/lease option help the community? The City of Mt. Juliet should not be in the business of acquiring land and then leasing it to other parties. If Mt. Juliet demands a fitness/sportsplex, then we should be looking at sports-facility models found in Nashville, Lebanon, Murfreesboro and Gallatin. Mt. Juliet is more affluent than any of these cities.

    I think the city should be recruiting business and organizations that will bring real jobs and tax dollars to our community. I like the idea of a hospital that saves lives, generates high paying jobs, and increases our home values.

    Please Mr. Bradshaw and Mr. Justice don’t say the YMCA will provide “250 jobs” for the community. These part-time jobs are not careers and won’t qualify an employee for a home mortgage. The non-profit YMCA memberships don’t generate sales tax dollars either. Our local batting cages and putt-putt course will generate more tax dollars for the community than the YMCA.

    We almost let our commissioners give away valuable land to a dog pound in the heart of Mt. Juliet. Let the YMCA buy their own land or find their own benefactor – not the taxpayers. Most residents can’t even afford a YMCA membership.

    If we must give away the land, let it be to a church, university, or let’s build our own sports facility.

  65. Butch Huber

    Juila,

    Thank you for speaking out against this most ridiculous YMCA deal. It must be two or three years ago when I found out that Linda was trying to build a 15 million dollar (which I believe soon escalated to 19 million dollar, and I project it would have run up to about 30 million dollar) aquatics center at taxpayer expense so she could turn the keys over to the YMCA for them to make the profits off of it. I told her immediately that I would do whatever I could legally was able in an effort to stop her. I sent her an e-mail to that effect. She continues to tout herself as being a “fiscal conservative”, while at the same time she is trying to give away 20,000,000+ dollars of our money for the YMCA to take profits from them. Don’t think that because she voted against the YMCA deal at the old MJES site that she is against the deal, she is just against the size of the deal….she wants it to be ten times as big. She is determined that the city give the YMCA a $20,000,000 gift, not a $2,000,000 gift. When asked about the YMCA deal in a forum, the last thing she mentioned was that we couldn’t afford it at this time. The first concerns she had was with where they were putting it and the size.
    Bradshaw votes against it, but I believe he votes against it because it doesn’t include free access to the pool for Mt. Juliet citizens. His pet project is to provide a city swimming pool.
    Justice is all for this deal, as is Hagerty. Sellers is giddy over it. If Linda and Ray are returned to the commission, they will eventually figure out a compromise and they will spend our money on a project like this one.

    Meanwhile, the good Doctor Kalin (sp?) offered the YMCA 12 free acres of prime land to build their center on and they thumbed their nose at it! 12 acres of free land and they decided that we should instead have to spend our money on it!

    I believe the county commission has finally seen the light regarding this property and they are going to put it up for sale on the open market. I believe that they will eventually see a day when the town center overlay district restrictions are loosened enough to move that property. That land was appraised for $2.8 million dollars about 4 or 5 years ago, when it still had the school on it (the school brought down the value of the land because of the mold problems). The county spent $189,000 to remove the school (an incredible deal for the county, I can’t believe they were able to get it done so inexpensively. Good job on that one Wilson County Government.) so conceivably, the value of the property should have gone up. Land values have also gone up in general since that time as well. Soon, the Paddocks will open, and when it does, I believe the value of all land along the widened part of Mt. Juliet Road will drastically increase in value. It is conceivable that the Old MJES site will increase in value to around $4,000,00 or more. Ray Justice was trying to work a deal where we would buy the Old MJES site and then trade it for a rock up on York Rd. He fought hard for that one.

    I asked the election commission for the financial statements from all of the candidates, but they didn’t give me Justice’s or Brydowski’s, I will have to go back and get them. It will be interesting to see who is contributing to their campaigns.

    Funny, whenever I ask the county or any other government for public documents they go and get them and turn them right over to me, but Mt. Juliet tells me “no”.

    Juila, tell as many people as you can about this site. Ask them to tune in and to tell all of their friends as well.

  66. Julia Blount

    This is a great site and even more informative than our Mt. News paper! I read several deposition/documents found on this site pertaining to Linda Elam involvement in various real estate transactions. My GOD! Why isn’t this lady in jail? I don’t believe everything I read, but if 10% of the accusations made by the former city manager and planner are true – then Elam should be fired.

    I must have read 500 pages of deposition records last night and discovered that Mayor Elam is brilliant at finding loop-holes – which cover her butt! More importantly, her involvement as an employee and consultant for CRC, a major development company for Mt. Juliet-based projects, is a “text-book” example of conflict of interest.

  67. Butch Huber

    Julia,

    It breaks my heart to know that elected officials can use their power to cause harm to others in retaliation for people standing for what is right and good and honest. When Linda did to Rob what she did I prayed with him and I declared before God that I would stand with Rob and that I would stand against the evil that she has done. I meant it then, and I mean it now. Others have been hurt as well. This woman attacked a man who was dealing with a dying wife at home because he embarrassed her when she was trying to illegally obtain building permits for a local builder in return for a donation toward a ladder truck fund. Let me say that again, she was trying to lower building standards for a builder so he could get building permits in return for a donation toward a ladder truck fund that we don’t even have. There is another issue with lower building standards that is now endangering the lives of citizens. Is this another back room deal?

    I can’t look the other way. I couldn’t look my children in the eye if I didn’t do what I could to hold elected officials accountable. I may not be able to change the world, but I can do my part as a citizen. If enough of us do our part, we can change the world together. Julia, now that you have seen the evidence, tell your friends. General Tommy Thompson will not do anything about the things that have gone on in this city, and all roads lead back to him. We cannot receive justice if he won’t prosecute. I’ve done what I know to do, everything keeps coming back to General Thompson, and he won’t get involved in the politics of Mt. Juliet.

    They can quite literally get away with anything they want to do.

  68. Truth

    Deep in the darkest forest of Charlie Daniels Park comes the sound of wood on metal. It’s Major Colonel Randy Pinoche defending his dishonor. “My nose against your cold steel, Sir Christopher Swordly.” Sir Christopher carried the cookie jar with Randy Pinoche’s fingerprints all over it. “These are not my fingers” Major Pinoche yells out,” I ordered these from Acme Hollow-man. He promised I would never get caught if I just pointed these wooden fingers at everyone else”. As Linda Lamb and the ”Should Be Committed Commissioners” stood by listening with deaf ears, a white city truck races on the scene. It was full of Inspector Gary Gadgets inspectors. They were falling in and out of the truck, wielding Rubber Stamps, heading right for the “Should Be Committed Commissioners”, stamping everything in sight. “Approved, Approved, Approved” they shouted. Major Randy Pinoche calls out for help. “Help”, “Help”. But Marty Kill and Gary Brando were busy looking at the Food Plan Map, deciding where to build more restaurants. “That’s a Flood Plain Map” the, Should Be Committed Commissioners” yelled out. Then all eyes turned to Acme Hollow-man, he looks up from that steamy city brew he was stirring. “That’s Ok” he says as that familiar grin starts to appear, “That’s Ok.” We will tax them for water front property when it rains. Now hand me more of that shredding, Mr. Brando, we surely can’t leave any truth behind, now can we, my precious.

  69. standandfight

    Before Summit can do anything, don’t they have to get a Certificate of Need from the State? Are they talking about leasing the land or purchasing it? Is the City going to build their facility too? Do they have anything other than a letter? Isn’t Linda on some advisory board of Summit Hospital? Smell- test problem?

  70. Chris Sorey

    Yes, they have to get a certificate of need before they can build, and Governor Bredeson is not going to let that happen. Look at Spring Hill for an example. The letter of intent is nothing more than a piece of paper. You intend to win the lottery win you buy a ticket, but you know your not going to win. Yes, Elam is on the board of Trustees at Summit, and to my knowledge, that was not disclosed until a local paper printed it last week. What you may not have heard is the Senior Citizens center that is planned to be part of the Y will be a teen center as well, and the seniors will only have access until 1 PM and then they have to be out. The Y is also asking that they sell they building they have now which is paid for, and give the Y the money. Now why would they do that?

    The Y needs to talk to Doc Kaelin again, who had offered them property at the Beckwith interchange.

  71. Butch Huber

    The YMCA deal is dead! I will tell you why in the days to come. They gave me all the evidence that I needed tonight! Let them try to put this deal through now and see if they don’t find themselves up to their necks in it. THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!

  72. Butch Huber

    Last night I witnessed the YMCA trying to complete a deal with the city through which it would be reimbursed for up to $200,000 worth of expenses paid by the YMCA if the city becomes legally obligated to complete this deal with them and doesn’t. In other words, if the city can obtain this lease/purchase deal with the county and then doesn’t actually enter into it, or if the city were to enter into the deal with the county but then doesn’t give the YMCA their lease on that property, then the City would be obligated to pay the YMCA’s expenses up to a certain level. (I say “certain level” because there are two actual numbers they were throwing around last night and I don’t know if one would apply, the other would apply, or if both would apply or when exactly they would both apply.)

    Let me run that down a little further. The YMCA, even though we haven’t obtained the lease/purchase deal from the county, wants the latitude to go out and spend up to $200,000, perhaps $250,000, on preparing to build this facility and they want you and I to take on their risks.

    Let’s take that one notch slower. You and I, through our commission, are offering the YMCA (against our wishes) the use of 8 acres of land for $1 per year for up to 100 years (if we can obtain the land from the county under reasonable terms) and the YMCA is now wanting the commission to put us further on the hook by guaranteeing them that if the next commission doesn’t complete this deal with them (If they can complete this deal) you and I will pay their expenses for getting out in front of us up to $200,000 ($250,000?)! That slapping sound you are hearing is the YMCA sitting on your chest slapping you repeatedly about the head, neck and shoulders. Hopefully it will slap those in this community who have sat and done nothing to do anything about this deal to take action.

    Ray Justice, Ed Hagerty and Will Sellers are so much for this deal that they will do just about anything to make it go through.

    Last night, Ray Justice and Linda Elam tied the lease/purchase deal price to the enhancement of the reverse L portion of Curd Road. Ray admitted on video last night that there truly is a “Credit” of $950,000 in the price of the Old MJES site and that that credit is to offset the county’s costs in that enhancement. Linda Elam really made the connection in that video last night as well. This is important because I have been telling them for months that they cannot legally complete this deal because they cannot use bond funds to purchase this land, and to obligate the city under such a deal would necessitate using bond funds. I have been told repeatedly by leaders of this city that the $950,000 is a “discount” and not a “credit”. They have been saying that I am wrong in my estimation that there is a connection between the purchase of this land and the Reverse L portion of Curd Road. Last night my position was proven on video. Now, if they try to complete this deal with the county there is evidence to send to the SEC. I am quite certain that the SEC will be interested in this once they see this new evidence. You see, I have already alerted them. I sent them a very detailed letter a few months back alerting them as to what this commission was up to.

    The city doesn’t have the $950,000 necessary to offset the obligation it will have to take on to complete this deal without using bond funds. I am fully aware of what this city has to work with financially and those funds simply do not exist outside the bond funds.

    The sponsors of the resolution to enter into these memorandums of understanding with the YMCA tried to complete this deal under a resolution rather than an ordinance because they were concerned that this last commission meeting might be their last and an ordinance would require two readings. They were going to financially obligate the city under the terms and conditions of the resolution that was brought forward last night, which is illegal, so they had to convert it on the fly and make it an ordinance instead of a resolution. You see, and ordinance that financially obligates the city to appropriate funds requires a few things before they can do it. The city manager and the city finance director have to make certain certifications for the city regarding the finances of the city. Once the commission has those assurances from the city manager and the finance director they have to vote on the matter in the form of an ordinance in a regularly called meeting of the commission. If they pass it without amendment on first reading they can go on to another meeting and pass the resolution. If passed on second reading the ordinance does not become active until 15 days later. However, if they do amend the ordinance before passing it on first reading it becomes a new ordinance and it has to come back before the commission on first reading again. If amended again, it has to come back as first reading again. The process continues until it is passed without amendment. Once passed without amendment it goes to second reading. However, if it passes on second reading with an amendment it must (I believe) go back to square one and go through first reading again. This requirement is designed to make sure that the commission isn’t able to slide a fast one by us and spend our money without our having an opportunity to stop them.

    Once they started talking about changing this resolution to an ordinance they started talking about how the next commission won’t be seated until after the election commission certifies the result of the election, which will be after the first meeting in November. Up until now, the next commission takes over at the first meeting after the actual election day. That’s how this commission took over, and all the commissions before them. TCA has a provision that states that the next commission takes over at the first meeting after the election. But the commissioners, city attorney, and city manager are now trying to say that another TCA provision states that it must come after the certification of the results of the election. Why is that important? Because they passed this Ordinance on first reading last night and they think that it will come back before them on second reading in the next meeting that they will be the ones sitting on that commission regardless of the outcome of the election. Man are they fighting hard to make this deal go through? They think that because the funds for this new ordinance were appropriated in the ordinance passed back in february or March that they are appropriated in this new ordinance, but they are wrong. This isn’t the other ordinance, this is a new ordinance. Had they “amended” the previous ordinance they may have been able to do that, but they didn’t amend the previous ordinance, they passed a new ordinance on first reading. This starts the process all over again. You see, they don’t have certification from the city manager or the finance director for this new ordinance. So, before anything can happen, they need to have the certifications from the city manager and the finance director, bring this new ordinance back before the commission on first reading, get it approved on first reading without amendment, then get the next commission to approve it on second reading without amendment, get the next commission not to rescind it after second reading, keep anyone from filing an injunction against them, keep the SEC from putting them in jail, get the County Commissioners to agree to the terms of the lease/purchase agreement without altering it, and meet a bunch of other conditions before these memorandums of understanding become effective and enforceable.

    But there is more. The reason they had to construct this deal the way that they have is because one commission can’t obligate another commission. The way they were going to do this in the first place was with a five year loan from the county, which would have obligated the next commission. The new ordinance requires the city pay the county back over three years. Isn’t that obligating the next commission? The make up of the commission is only two years since either two or three of the commissioner are up for election every two year, so how is it not obligating the next commission? Are they planning on another bond offering in July of 09? That’s what they seem to be getting ready to do. They can’t do it now, but they may be able to do it then.

    Do you see how many hoops Ray, Will, and Ed are willing to jump through to try to make this insane deal happen?

    Here is another thing…I believe that the memorandum of understanding with Summit Hospital states that they city will lease Summit 5 acres of land. The memorandum of understanding with the YMCA is for 8 acres. If I am right, doesn’t that add up to 13 acres? How is this commission going to stretch the 12 acres located at the Old MJES site into 13 acres?

    If the county really wants to sell the city 12 acres of prime real estate for $1,050,000 the city should try to make it happen, even though we are in a financial crisis in the making. You see, if the city were to purchase this land for $1,050,000 and then remove the restrictions of the town center overlay district from that property the city could sell that land for about 2 to 3 million in profit in a few days or weeks.

    But, please let this sink in, these commissioners are trying without shame to give our money that we can’t afford to the YMCA. The city manager pulled city owned tennis courts off his list of things to do because the city can’t afford them, but we can afford to give the YMCA this $2,000,000 gift? They enacted a hotel/motel tax in order to pay for city owned parks and recreation and then amended the ordinance to allow them to use that tax to pay for this gift to the YMCA, then they scrub city owned tennis courts because they don’t have enough money?!!!

    Folks, (excuse the language) but you should be highly pissed off!

  73. Nathan Clariday

    I doubt anybody was watching but several months ago I was at a city commission meeting. Ray gave a big speech “How we couldn’t afford any parks, trails, and ballfields; but the YMCA could do that” In that meeting I told him, we could probably afford the things he was talking about if we would take the hotel/motel tax and put it where it was supposed to go instead of giving it away. the only reason that tax passed in the first place was because individuals thought it was going for these items. If everybody knew that it was going to be used for any whim of the commission; they would stopped it.

  74. Hanley Hammond

    Folks:

    Vote for Winston “Ted” Floyd!

    I totally agree that the only way to stop this is to stop Ray Justice. I like many of you thought this issue was dead until August when it reared its ugly head again. I was planning on Monday nights Commission meeting to be quick and without any real issues. Well was I wrong. I missed the Titans game because I couldn’t turn the channel from the meeting. I got so mad that I will be walking my neighborhood and other nearby neighborhoods on Saturday to ask for votes for Ted Floyd.

    Thanks for your vote for Ted.

  75. Butch Huber

    I have in my possession a copy of the letter sent from the city of Mt. Juliet to the county regarding the desire of the city to purchase the Old MJES site. The letter states that the city desires to purchase the land for $2,000,000, of which $950,000 will be credited by Wilson County to the City of Mt. Juliet as the County’s contribution to road improvements made to Curd Road in or near the new Mt. Juliet high School.

    Ahem! This letter is prima facia evidence, in my opinion, of a connection between the intended purchase of the OLD MJES site and the use of bond funds to upgrade the portion of the Eastern Connector Road that lies inside unincorporated Wilson County.

    Here’s the deal….the letter states that the $950,000 is to be considered the County’s contribution to Curd Road. The city has no obligation to upgrade curd road in this area because that section of the road does not lie inside the city. The $950,000 credit is a condition upon the sale of the land, and therefore must be paid for by funds other than the bond offering for the Eastern Connector Road. The only things that the city is legally authorized to spend bond funds on are those things that are specifically written in the written statement of the bond offering. Using bond funds to establish a credit from the county is not an authorized use of bond funds. I believe, with everything in me, that this letter proves that the city is intent on misusing bond funds and that they should be investigated by the SEC.

    I have repeatedly warned the city commission that any attempt to use bond funds in this way will prompt a formal complaint by me to the SEC. Seeing as they already have a complaint on file by me, and now that I have in my possession proof positive that they are intending to use bond funds to offset the credit, I am confident that they will be very interested in what this city has done here. Regardless of whether or not the County Commission put this property up for sale on the open market or not, the city of Mt. Juliet should be investigated for attempted bond fraud!

  76. Butch Huber

    It appears the Linda Elam is sponsoring an ordinance to repeal the ordinance to enter into the memorandum of understanding with the YMCA. That should pass easily 3-1 (Hagerty won’t be there) for this meeting. She is also sponsoring a resolution asking the county commission to give the city $950,000 for the construction costs on Curd Road. I don’t get it, why doesn’t the city just build the Eastern Connector Road where it lies inside the city and then let the county build its portion of the road? It is in the county’s best interest to build the road too. The county did the right thing by putting the school property up for sale. They can use the money that comes from that to pay for their costs of construction on the eastern connector road. The primary thing the city should be doing right now is making sure that they have adequate roadway up to the section of the road that lies in the county. If the county doesn’t have the money to fix the problem outside the school, then the “county”, little “c”, that means all of us, need to come up with a solution. If the city has some obligation to the construction costs in that area that lies outside the city perhaps the city should pay the county a portion of the construction costs for that part of the road and let them build it.

    Jim Bradshaw is sponsoring a resolution to investigate the validity of the votes taken in the last meeting. The city should take a hard, hard, hard look at this issue. What they did by not letting Floyd be seated in that meeting and at the same time letting Hagerty and Elam be seated is a major game changer. I simply do not understand how they could do what they did legally. It would appear that they had to either violate the law one way, or violate it another. However, even if they don’t violate the law, they had to violate their own ordinance. So either they have an illegal ordinance on the books, or they violated their own ordinance. Regardless, one way or the other, something has to be done to address this issue once and for all. If it turns out that Randy and Jason were completely correct, then legislation should be enacted to correct the laws so that they are aligned with one another and the city has to amend City Ordinance 97-3. I believe the will of the voters was overturned for one meeting…but who am I? Oh, yeah, I am the person who figured out that if the YMCA defaulted on their agreement with the city that the YMCA would reimburse itself for any expense we incur as a city….that one slipped right past our learned and degreed city attorney.

  77. Butch Huber

    A long while back, Chris Sorey, aka “Common Sense” and I had a back and forth fun little discussion where I was speaking about the Mayor’s intended $20,000,000 gift, (you read that right, 20 million dollar gift) and how that money would be better spent on emergency preparedness than to spend it on a gift to the YMCA. Chris missed that point then, we will see if he misses it again this time.

    The city was about to go headlong into floating a bond for as much as $20,000,000 to fund the development of a project through which the city would purchase land, build a building, develop sports fields, and then turn the keys to it all over to the YMCA. Anyone who has been reading my posts knows that I am against the government taking our money and spending it on such things. What I was driving at back then, was that government should only be spending money on things that we can’t do for ourselves, like emergency preparedness and disaster relief. Chris somehow worked that up into a $20,000,000 underground bunker, and because I wanted to play with him a little, I let him go down that rabbit hole. Arf, arf, arf.

    He missed the entire point. Would I rather see the city spend $20,000,000 on an underground bunker than give the YMCA a $20,000,000? Yes, all day every day and twice on Sunday. But now for the reasons you might assume. I would rather they spend that money on a bunker because a bunker is something that is meant to save lives in an emergency and it is something that citizens really can’t do for themselves and a YMCA is something that people should do for themselves. Do I think that they should spend $20,000,000 on an underground bunker? Well, that is a different question, isn’t it? No, no $20,000,000 bunker for Mt. Juliet.

    The recent events in Mumbai should be a telling reminder to us that terrorists are still very serious. This handful of people took hundreds of lives, shook up a nation, and forever changed that game. It would be nothing for a group of the same type of people to do the exact same thing in any city in any country anywhere in the world. Rather than us spending $210,000 per year for 5 years on the property that we were going to give away to the YMCA, I felt then, as I do now, that the government of Mt. Juliet should be focusing its “ATTENTION”, if not money, toward ensuring that there is an adequate emergency preparedness plan for this city…starting with locating our dispatch to a safe place where someone walking through the front door of city hall can’t take them out in about 3 seconds.

    Command and control is centered around communications. If you loose your communications like you have chaos. That, my friend, is exactly what a terrorist lives and dies for…chaos. They flew a couple plans into a couple tall buildings and forevermore changed the world. 19 terrorists killed three thousand people in those buildings, and touched off events that would cost the lives of four thousand American service members and who knows how many other coalition troops, as well as perhaps more than 100,000 civilians in the middle east in the ensuing wars. The events that occurred on 9/11 may not be the only thing we are fighting over, but they were the event that set everything on fire.

    This city needs to be able to answer the question “what if”. It is that very question that I had in mind back then, it is the same question I have now. The release of a study conducted recently shows that the United States can expect a large scale terrorist attack on its soil by 2015. It may be a chemical attack, it may be a biological attack, or perhaps even a nuclear attack. That they are saying this to the public should be very, very alarming to you.

    Do you know what to do in case of a nuclear attack? How about a chemical attack? What about biological? Do you even have a clue what those types of attacks cause? Do you know what happens when there is a nuclear air burst? Do you know what an Electro-magnetic Pulse causes? Do the police and fire department know what they need to know in order to be able to properly respond to a chemical attack? How about a nuclear attack?

    You might be saying: “what is there to do after a nuclear attack? Everyone would be dead.” You would be wrong. Most terrorist groups don’t have their hands on large scale nuclear weapons….yet. They can easily put together enough low-grade radioactive material to make a dirty bomb though. What happens if they set off such a bomb in downtown Nashville? What do we do then?

    Spending trillions on fighting terrorists without spending trillions preparing so that terrorists don’t get the big payoff they seek, chaos, and so that we are prepared to deal with their terror is insane.

    What do the different levels of alert mean? Does anyone know anymore?

    But spending money fighting wars and preparing for emergencies isn’t the answer either. The only answer is to take out the root cause of the terror.

    We aren’t addressing the cause of terror at all, we are simply reacting to the symptoms.

    But while there are causes of terror, we should be investing in being prepared for it. Just like what happened in Mumbai, terror can happen anywhere at anytime. Jump ropes aren’t much good when you need a gas mask.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that we should be spending millions on emergency preparedness, but I’m not saying we shouldn’t be either. All I am saying is that, instead of having a $100,000 city attorney and a $125,000 city manager focusing their attention on a gift to the YMCA, this city should be focusing its attention on matters of importance to all citizens, such as safety and traffic. That is all I was really saying back then, but I had to have a little fun with Chris.

  78. Lori Ruotolo

    I would like to see Mt. Juliet with their own emergency service, but am also in favor of expanding WEMA. WEMA has a volunteer division, but it may be helpful to extend that to include another volunteer group for extreme situations. They don’t need to be trained in CPR, or pass a physical exam. Basically, you get enough people interrested in learning about what to do in such emergencies, set up a calling list, website with information, give WEMA and MJPD a database of assets such as who has a boat for rescues, who is a ham radio operator, who has any other particular training/skills. Setup a plan for each type of emergency that is approved by WEMA and the MJPD. Then if something does happen, more of us will know where to go, who to call and how to help one another.

  79. Butch Huber

    I can’t believe it is Sunday and this is the first time I am Writing about the YMCA deal this week. It’s dead, Right? Hasn’t the proverbial stake been shoved through its heart? Or are we going to see YMCA/City of Mt. Juliet vs Citizens of Mt. Juliet/common sense (not Chris Sorey) round two?

    Did Elam vote to kill this deal because we can’t afford it and its a bad idea or did she kill it because it wasn’t a big enough deal? Will Ed and Will now vote with her to build a $20,000,000 aquatics center now, or have we seen the last of this monster?

    Are we going to focus on roads in Mt. Juliet for awhile, or will we find some other socialist project to sink all of our time and money into? (Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the YMCA is a socialist organization, I just think taking all of the people’s money from them and giving it to someone else is socialist.)

    Now that this is dead, Randy and Jason should have about 35 hours a week freed up so they should be able to actually accomplish something good for the city other than trying to waste our money and create cover-ups, right? Of course, I guess it could get worse now, with all that time on their hands they can really work on ways to screw things up! I wonder how many more lawsuits this city can cause over the next four years?

    Isn’t it funny (Strange) how getting rid of Rob, Bobby, Hatton, Debbie, and Louis just made things worse, not better? I wonder why that is? Could it be true that they gutted this city of the people who had the knowledge and expertise needed to move the city ahead? Just about everything that is happening in this city was started during the time that Kevin, Rob, Bobby, Hatton, Debbie, and Louis were working for the city, is that coincidence or is there something to that little factor?

    Here’s the good news. The City Manager took the expansion of the tennis courts off of his agenda because the city couldn’t afford it. But he said that the city was otherwise doing just fine. He didn’t take the YMCA off the agenda or any other project for that matter. So, if he believed that there was plenty of money to take care of other items then we should have about $210,000 freed up to apply to another project right? For the record, I don’t believe the city has extra money to put toward anything, I believe the city will end up in a sea of red ink very soon, but theoretically it should have an extra $210,000 floating around. Where will they spend it? They will spend it you know, this city government no longer believes in building a reserve fund, it wants to spend everything it takes in each year and a little bit more. They only way they can justify a property tax is to spend down the reserve fund to a point where they can’t pass a balanced budget, then they will have to raise the property tax rate.

    For what it is worth, thanks for slaying the dragon that was the gift to the YMCA commission. (Actually, thank you County Commission for saving us from ourselves before this commission could drive the stake through its heart.)

  80. Butch Huber

    I got to thinking…now that the city isn’t going to spend our money on a $1,3000,000 to $2,000,000 gift to the YMCA, shouldn’t Will Sellers, Ed Hagerty, and Ray Justice be ponying up what would have been their share of the $1.3-$2.0 Million to put toward developing a non-profit foundation that’s geared toward raising the necessary funds to bring the YMCA to Mt. Juliet? After all, if it was a good idea for me to be forced to give $200+ to the YMCA, wouldn’t it still be a good idea for them even though I will no longer be forced to participate? In fact, shouldn’t all of the people who were pushing the city to take taxpayer money and give it away pony up their money, too? I remember them talking about how they got so many phone calls in support of this project, I suggest that they call all of those people and form a non-profit fundraising group and then work to raise the money privately.

    Or was this whole YMCA deal a good idea only as long as they were spending taxpayer money?

  81. Butch Huber

    Pleasant outcome:

    Instead of the city purchasing the Old Elementary School site and then giving it to the YMCA, the property was sold, or is being sold, to a local developer to be developed into a tax generating property.

    Instead of the city entangling itself into a bond fraud scheme, the city can focus its attention to actually accomplishing something.

    Instead of the county involving itself with the City’s Bond Fraud scheme (And they would have been involved. You can’t transact business with someone when you know that to transact that business would be a violation of law and remain innocent yourself.), they were able to sell that property for $3.4 million dollars, a full $1.4 million more than they would have gotten for it from the city.

    Instead of the enhancement of the reverse L costing the county $950,000, the city is now only requesting that they pay $650,000. Turns out the buildout costs are going to be less than anticipated and on top of that there was a grant from the state that came in, which has reduced the County’s responsibility.

    Instead of the city fraudulently and abusively using taxpayer dollars to provide a boondoggle for a non-profit entity that operates like a for profit entity, and instead of the city acting in a manner that is contrary to capitalistic ideals we hold dear in this country, the YMCA has to work out something on its own…at least for now.

    Instead of having lawsuits and court challenges and chaos, things have settled down some around Mt. Juliet.

    All-in-all, I am pleased with the outcome as it seems to exist right now. That’s what worries me. I know some of the people involved in all of this are like the scorpion and the frog. You probably have heard the story. The scorpion goes up to the frog and asks him to take him across the river. The frog says, “no way, if I let you get on my back and try to take you across the river you will sting me and I will die.” The scorpion says, “No I won’t, if I sting you you will die and I will drown.” That made sense to the frog, so he told the scorpion to climb on. As they reach about the half-way point across the river the scorpion stung the frog. The frog said, “what did you do that for, now we are both going to die.” The scorpion said, “It’s my nature.” And so it is with some of the people who have involved themselves with this whole episode. Their nature is such that they have to do things that are underhanded and sinister. They don’t know why they do it, they just have no choice, it is their nature. They are controlled by their “nature”. I have come to realize, that with the people we are dealing with, when everything seems to be fine something really big is happening, and the big thing isn’t normally a “good” thing. Do I believe in the good in people? Yes. Do I believe there is anything good in some of these people? Not really. The evidences against that position are too great to make that leap.

    I think I have been wrong on one thing. I have tried to separate the public person of these public officials from their private lives. You know, there are some decisions that a public official has to make that are contrary to their own personal beliefs and convictions, I get that. However, there have been some things that have gone on in this city that aren’t “politics”, they are “personal”. Whenever a politician uses her power to abuse others it speaks of her personal integrity, not just her public persona. She must be evil to the core if she sees nothing wrong with using her power to cause harm to another. When a public servant abuses another person he abuses all of us because we put him there to do our bidding, and when their bidding is evil it means our bidding is evil. They act in our stead. If we do nothing, we are complicit. It is not enough to ignore the problem and wait out their terms, we must always act to stop their harm and abuse. We must hold them accountable for their deeds and we must usher them out of their power.

    We are all quick to jump on politicians when they are caught in private life doing something they shouldn’t, and we reflect on how it relates to their public office, so I guess it is fair just the same to reflect on who they are as people by how they act in public. I have tried to be fair, and I put up a wall between who I see them as on a personal level and how I see them as public officials. I am tearing down the wall. You can’t do evil in public office and not be evil period. Character counts all the time. A person is as a person does.

  82. Nathan Clariday

    Just to let you know; the school property sale is not final. Now the developer has signed a contract; but has 90 or 120 days to finalize it. The developer has until that time to finalize it; if not then the developer will forfeit a deposit amount and the deal will be ended.

  83. Butch Huber

    In this thread, and perhaps others, uncommon sense, or Chris Sorey as the case may be, and I debated back and forth about the efficacy of an effort to establish fall-out shelters in this city rather than spending the $20,000,000 on a YMCA gift by mayor Elam. I was toying with Chris a little, as he took what I was saying and turned it into a $20,000,000 bunker, but the truth of it all is that we are not safe. Today I read an article in which the federal government is saying that they wouldn’t respond to a nuclear attack for 24 hours or longer, and that response to a nuclear attack is a local responsibility.

    The person being interviewed said they believe that a nuclear detonation during his life would happen. Turns out the idea of a fall-out shelter might not be such a bad idea after all.

    We need a comprehensive emergency preparedness/response plan in Wilson County/Mt. Juliet. We probably have a bigger need for aid and response to tornado’s more than anything else, but that doesn’t change the fact that this city, and this county, are woefully under protected and under staffed with emergency workers.

    The article said that there isn’t a city in America that is properly equipped or prepared to render a proper response to a nuclear detonation. Perhaps no city in the world would be properly prepared, but at the end of the day, if they are going to be spending money on something, I would still rather they enhance emergency response and disaster preparedness than to have them spend yet more time and money trying to figure out how to give our money to the YMCA. How about you?

  84. GLENN SMITH

    Dosen’t anyone commissioner do their homework? The board authorizied MONEY to be donated to “FUNDS for ISRAEL” proposed by James Maness. I was at this meeting on 25 July 2011 and witnessed another concerned citizen comment on the “Separation of Church and State” I agree with what was stated by he/she. The board ignored what was said and past the donation, amount unknown, to a Christian grassroots movement in the world known as the “Christians United with Israel (CUFI)” a religious organization/ the “United with Israel” organization founded by Jewish faithed families. Also presented by Maness was a “MT. JULIET” license plate which costs $10.00 for the “Brothers of West Wilson County (TN)” which is a 501c3 charity. The approvel and passage of these special personel interests is a potential for another lawsuit regarding the separation of church and state, just what is not needed by the lawsuit burdened Mt. Juliet. James Maness needs to keep his special interests out of the politicle relm before he costs us more money. I FOR ONE WOULD LIKE A TOTAL ITEMIZED COST OF WHAT THE FIRE STATION HAS ALLREADY COST MT. JULIET, TO AND INCLUED TIME, PRINTINGS, MEETINGS, ADVRTISEMENTS, MANPOWER, LOTTERIES/DOOR PRISES ETC, ETC, ETC. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR “I VOLUTEERED MY TIME” TIME IS MONEY REMEMBER THAT.

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