Mt. Juliet census director admits to stealing money

from The Tennessean, May 20, 2008. Story by Clay Carey:

The organizer of Mt. Juliet’s special census has quit his city job and admitted to stealing thousands of dollars in town money.

City employee Mike Chambers said he took between $10,000 and $15,000 over a period of several weeks by falsifying invoices related to the census, which was completed earlier this month.

Rest of the story at the Tennessean

– Publius

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57 Comments

Filed under ethics

57 responses to “Mt. Juliet census director admits to stealing money

  1. Pingback: That Sure Is One Special Census : Post Politics: Political News and Views in Tennessee

  2. Butch Huber

    Evidence of what I have been saying all along. When the head is out of order the body will follow. Any organization devoid of integrity at its top levels will ultimately disintegrate into chaos and pandemonium. I have been saying this type of thing would happen all along (and I certainly don’t think this will be the last issue to come up.)

    I know Mike Chambers, not well, but I do know him. When I was told of this issue I was suspicious because the accusation didn’t seem to fit my perception of Mike. Apparently, he has admitted to taking the money. Mike is not excused for his actions, and if he stole he needs to pay the penalty for his actions. However, when a person operates in an environment that is want of honor and dignity, in an atmosphere that is demoralizing, and when a person works in a position where they feel unappreciated (Like not being properly paid), and while at the same time the leaders of that organization have no moral base and continue to violate the law, it is only a matter of time before that person is faced with himself by being tested through an opportunity to do wrong or to do right. Unfortunately, Mike seems to have failed his test, but through his failure we can see that the cancer of Mt. Juliet is still alive and well.
    What Mike has apparently done is reprehensible and unacceptable, and if the things that he is accused of are true, he must receive punishment for his actions. However, it would be a severe injustice to him and to us for Mike to be punished for what he has done without elected officials in this city also receiving their punishment for their misdeeds.
    Anyone who has ever worked for or operated in a corrupt organization can attest to the temptations that exist inside that environment. Nothing I have stated here is intended to lessen the severity or gravity of what Mike has done, I only mean to put this in proper perspective.
    Mike, I hope that justice is met with mercy in your situation and that some good will come of all of this, but I want you to know that if you are guilty of what has been stated I am gravely disappointed in your actions.

  3. Glen Linthicum

    I am shocked and disappointed. I thought I knew Mike well and would have never thought he would do something like this.

  4. Brian Snyder

    Butch,
    I can understand why you believe what you do, being on the outside looking into the fish bowl. Working for the City seems to license the entire public to infest every aspect of your life with scrutiny.
    The top decision makers employed by the City are very honorable, and do not lack integrity. What Mike has done does not reflect the state of the City employees. Mike made a bad choice, and that’s that. But to say it’s the leaderships fault is a faulty argument.
    When we chose to work for the City, we accept the pay scale and either learn to live with it, or change our situation (like working two jobs, or finding a new job). We do not choose to acquire city money other ways. That is not the mentality of the employees here. This was the action of one person, who is regretful of his choice.
    In my opinion, the Cancer mt. Juliet is plagued with exists exclusivly on this web site. The people working in and around City Hall are doing the best they can. The city manager inherited issues, and he is dealing with them, with intelligence and integrity. Let me say clearly – no one on this site knows the entire story of anything they comment upon. Due to constraints placed upon certain employees by residents of this site, the true story cannot be told at this time. There are facts that will come out, and prove many posts here to be incorrect. And when that day comes – I will challenge you to admit you were wrong… but I won’t hold my breath.
    Mike made a poor decision, who on this page hasn’t done the same? Mike lost his job, who on this page hasn’t had the same thing happen (some from the same employer too)? You have some good arguments, but this is not one of them. It’s easy to throw rocks at victims you cannot see. I get flustered because some of your comments hurt so many innocent people. Your statements are false, and incorrect, and none of us can say anything. Butch – you are one of Mt. Juliet’s Cancerous growths, you just don’t know it yet. Some of your arguments are valid, and some questions I have heard you ask are warranted and deserve an answer, and I will be listening because I know eventually the answer will come out. But comments like these – that just demoralize a place that is as challenging to work as the City is, just piss me off. It’s easy for you – no one comes after you at work. Your work and personal life aren’t open for public scrutiny like ours are. You don’t have all the facts, and likely never will. Just be cautious for the sakes of those in the city who want to defend themselves, but can’t… yet.
    Try and find something positive to work on. Find something positive to say. Help build instead of constantly tear apart. You want to make a difference, there is a mayoral position up for election. Stand up and … make a difference.

  5. Butch Huber

    Brian,

    I am not ignoring you. I have a nice response for you, I just need to work on it for a while longer.

  6. Bobby Franklin

    Mr. Snyder,

    I sent you an email April 14th of this year explaining how you can easily post all Commission Agenda items (ordinances and resolutions) on the city website. That is done in many cities across the state and was done in Mt. Juliet before Mr. Robertson was hired. You have never responded to the email nor have you ever placed those items on the website. Have you completely stopped putting City Commission meetings on the website too? Why hasn’t the 2008-2009 budget been posted either? I think this is the first time in 7 years that the budget hasn’t been available on the website for public inspection.

    I agree with you about Mike Chambers.

    Mike stole money. When caught he paid it back, resigned, and apologized. I don’t know what else he can do now but account for his crime and move on. He has made every effort to right his wrong. There have been other “thefts” at the city, wrongs that have never been righted – thefts of good name and reputation.

    Shakespeare said it best, “Who steals my purse steals trash; ’tis something, nothing; ‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands. But he that filches from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him and makes me poor indeed.”

    I truly hope it never happens to you.

  7. Butch Huber

    Response to Brian part one.

    Brian,

    You are a newcomer on the scene in Mt. Juliet government, and like most people who take on a new position, you have entered that position with hope and ambition and a belief that the organization you are working for is good and decent. Good for you, to take on a position with the opposite expectation would be insanity. However, you are absolutely wrong about the top level of the government of Mt. Juliet, and I will prove it here.

    The commission of Mt. Juliet has an obligation to follow the laws and statutes of the Nation and the State, the city charter and the ordinances and resolutions of the local government. They not only have an obligation to FOLLOW them, they have an obligation to ENFORCE those laws. To fail to follow “AND” enforce those laws, Statutes, the charter and the ordinances and resolutions is dereliction of duty, and dereliction of duty is an offense that requires removal from office under TCA. You are welcome to do the research on what I have just stated, but all you will do is prove me right. The foundation of my rebuttal to you rests on the fact that they have to follow AND enforce the law.
    One of the tenets of my argument that you are wrong is the fact that elected officials are expected to conduct themselves honestly. Another is that they are to be faithful to the voters. Another tenet is that they are supposed to be decent to the employees, who ultimately work for the voters. And a fourth tenet is that they are to be accountable for what they do as elected officials and they are to remain above reproach. In other words, Brian, they need to be responsible, respectful, thoughtful, insightful, dedicated, loyal, courteous, open-minded, keep themselves out of trouble, conduct themselves in such a way that would keep them above suspicion, and they should do the will of the voters and not use their positions as a platform to wield their personal agenda. The foundation and tenets of my argument are overarched by the oath that these people have taken swearing that they will do the things that are expected of them, and to do less is a violation of their word and of a public trust.

    Voters are not naive, we know that it is no longer realistic to expect with sincere anticipation that all elected officials will conduct themselves according to ideal norms, but every once in a while there should at least be a few who measure up. It is unfortunate that people can’t seem to enter public office and actually do all of what they were sent there to do, and do it in the manner that is honorable, but the situation in the American politic has devolved to a point where it is actually more commonly expected that politicians will reveal themselves as villains and scoundrels then it is that they prove themselves statesmen or stateswomen. I for one don’t believe that it is right to lower the bar of expectation because so few measure up, but rather, make life so unbearable for those who don’t measure up or who intend to enter politics for the wrong reasons that they will go away. I don’t believe the problem with politics is that there are so few good and decent people who are interested in being involved with the political process and who could measure up, but rather that good men and women choose not to enter the race because they don’t want to associate with the debauchery that exists inside a system so filled with such nefarious ilk. I firmly believe that the only way to populate government with good men and women is to launch a serious effort to drive out the ill intended people. In other words, it is not enough to vote for those who currently run for office or who run for re-election, for they are largely nothing more than two sides of the same coin. To re-establish order, civility, honor, dignity, character, and justice in the political system in America will require more of citizens than to idly stand-by and watch and only enter the process for moments every two to four years and choose between the lesser of two evils at the voting booth. To establish a more ideal government will require that citizens take their rightful and dutiful place in the process and hold elected officials accountable for their mischief. Thomas Jefferson knew the importance of the citizen in the process and that is why he supported open government. So, in light of my beliefs, I feel that it is incumbent upon me to stand up for what I believe and insist that government officials follow the law and behave in a dignified and respectable manner. That having been said, I don’t believe that the only philosophies that exist on the various issues before the several governments in America are the philosophies to which I personally subscribe, and I don’t delude myself into believing that I am right 100% of the time, however, I believe what I believe with passion and with the belief that my way of thinking is best until I am proven wrong. When proven wrong I tend to adopt a new philosophy based upon the new knowledge that proved me wrong and then I become passionate about the new position.

  8. Butch Huber

    response to Brian part two.

    So, if you adopt the things that I have stated thus far as fair and acceptable and then weigh the following against the foundation and tenets I have described here, against the overarching basis that these folks have actually taken an oath stating that they will conduct themselves in such a manner, and against the ideal state of a government filled with elected officials who do what is good for the people, you will have no choice but to agree that the top people employed by this government (Which would be the commission itself) do lack integrity.
    Brian, I am sure you have read my posts about the mayor’s meeting with Chris Ryan during which he offered to make a six-figure donation to the city ladder truck fund if the mayor could obtain building permits that would enable him to illegally start construction on his site without having the infrastructure in place. I am sure that you are aware that the mayor in fact called a meeting for the purpose of attempting to persuade city staff to issue said permits. I am sure you are aware that what she was attempting to do was illegal and the city planning attorney reeled her in and informed her that what she was attempting to do exceeded her authority. The mayor was motivated by Chris Ryan’s offered bribe and she acted on that bribe. Let’s put this in another context and see if you then think it is such an innocent gesture on her part. Let’s say that a department head in city government, let’s say, Hatton Wright, could have been influenced by an offer by a developer to donate six-figures toward new trucks for the public works department if Hatton would simply look the other way and issue the permits. Had Hatton Wright called that meeting to persuade the Mayor, City Manager, Planning Attorney, Zoning Administrator, City Planner, and others that it was right to issue those illegal permits and to justify why he should do it, and slam his hand on a table and exclaim that the city needs to issue the permits, do you think the mayor would have seen that as acceptable behavior? I somehow doubt that she would have. She would have taken Hatton to the mat on such an issue and would have taken Rob Shearer to task for even allowing the meeting. What she did in this circumstance was to pit the city against the developer and vice versa and she placed herself as the intermediary while trying to obtain a six-figure donation in return for the issuance of illegal building permits. The only entity that would have directly benefitted from the ladder truck at the time was the mayor’s secret employer/developer. Does that sound like someone acting with integrity to you, Brain?
    The city personnel manual clearly has rules of procedure for complaints of sexual harassment, Brian. Mayor Elam corresponded, interacted, and communicated with Mrs. Reitz regarding a six-page writing authored by Mrs. Reitz and of which the mayor received through, as I am told, Lori Landry. The rules of procedure clearly state that the mayor, if she thought this was an official complaint of sexual harassment and at the moment she became aware of a complaint of sexual harassment, was obligated to immediately take the six-page writing containing the complaint to the city manager. Instead, Mayor Elam and the former city attorney collaborated on the matter and determined it would be appropriate for the Mayor to instruct Mrs. Reitz on how to construct a complaint and the mayor, according to John Reitz, instructed Mrs. Reitz on WHAT to write. I found it interesting, as did the investigating attorney, that the final version of Mrs. Reitz’s complaint was one of sexual harassment against Hatton Wright. The investigating attorney seemed a little bewildered when Mrs. Reitz continued to request to be deposed and continued to lay claim to additional violations by many people other than Hatton Wright while there was little to no evidence of sexual harassment on the part of Hatton Wright. Mayor Elam used this issue to publicly humiliate Hatton Wright before the public and smear his name. Never has Mayor Elam apologized for her indiscretion and/or her attack against Hatton Wright. Hatton Wright was cleared by the investigation, but, thanks to the mayor, will always carry the stigma of having been accused of sexual harassment. It is clear to me that Mrs. Reitz was not intent on filing a sexual harassment complaint against Hatton Wright, but rather was concerned about issues that she perceived to be wrong and unjust in the public works department and she purposed to do something about it. The mayor is on record as having encouraged Mrs. Reitz to file her complaint of sexual harassment against Hatton Wright, but the rest of the story is yet to be divulged. Perhaps it will come out in the forthcoming investigations and depositions in the lawsuits against the city. It is clear that the city personnel manual was not followed in this case. Following the personnel manual is required of all personnel employed by the city, including the commissioners and mayor. The mayor consulted with the city attorney and together they determined their course of action. Rather than follow the personnel manual they developed their own action plan based on their on motives. That, to me, is not integrity.

    Mayor Elam called Bobby Franklin under color of office to persuade, apparently quite forcefully, Mr. Franklin to remove a condition on her secret developer employer’s construction project that would have been counter to her employer’s financial interests. The mayor was censured for her actions, but was never referred to the District Attorney General for investigation and prosecution upon reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing and she was not removed from office for her misdeed as is required under the TCA. The Commission was officially made aware of this issue and its duties under the TCA in a complaint that I personally filed with the city attorney. They failed to do their duty under the law and as a result are derelict in their duty. Dereliction of duty is an offense punishable by removal from office and such remedial action is mandatory under the law. Their willingness to ignore the law is not a sign of integrity to me, Brian.

    Mayor Elam took it upon herself to meet with former city manager Rob Shearer to demand his resignation. She not only demanded his resignation, she, according to Rob Shearer, had drafted his resignation letter, and told him that he had one hour to decide and that if he did not resign and accept her negotiated severance package she would vote to fire him for cause in a supposed special meeting to be called for the following Tuesday. She acted outside her authority in that instance and violated several laws. The commission was made aware of the facts and circumstances, including the specific laws and statutes that were violated and yet they turned their collective heads. Rob Shearer was robbed of the rightful enjoyment of his position, his income, and of power. The city was robbed of a city manager that had returned six straight years of surplus budgets and who had ushered in the most explosive growth this city had ever seen. This does not sound like “integrity” to me, Brian.

    Bobby Franklin was fired for reasons that were known to be false at the time he was fired! He was obviously fired in retaliation to his testimony in the investigation into the actions of Mayor Elam, actions on her part that eventually got her censured. Bobby Franklin addressed the commission and demanded that situation be made right, yet, even though they knew what had happened was wrong, they have not apologize to Mr. Franklin nor have they set the situation right. Now, the city will have to face a lawsuit over the issue. That, to me, does not sound like the integrity you speak of, Brian.

    This commission is about to purchase land from the county and give it away to the YMCA. This is not only a stupid plan, it is an abomination to the people who live here. The YMCA did their own survey of Mt. Juliet and found that only 9% (I believe that actual number was 9%, not 10%) of the residents here were even interested in a YMCA in Mt. Juliet. That survey didn’t say, “Are you interested in the city of Mt. Juliet donating $1.3 million dollars worth of tax money to the YMCA so we can build a building”, but rather was simply a query to determine the interest level in the presence of a YMCA in Mt. Juliet. Had the survey asked the residents if they wanted the city to donate $1.3 million dollars to the YMCA I believe it would have had a much lower affirmative response. But, even based on the survey conducted by the YMCA, only 9% of the people are going to directly benefit from the donation of money belonging to 100% of the people. Can you honestly say that is “Integrity”, Brian?

  9. Butch Huber

    Response to Brian part three.

    Ray Justice called then Police Chief Kenny Martin blasting him for not extending PROFESSIONAL COURTESY to the daughter of a former Mt. Juliet public official when she was arrested for driving under the influence. In that recorded conversation you can hear Ray Justice lying through his teeth about a fabricated incident where he had extended professional courtesy to the fiancé of a metro police officer. Not only was Ray Justice lying, he was trying to influence a Chief of Police to extend PROFESSIONAL COURTESY to a suspect under suspicion of driving under the influence! Does that sound like integrity?
    The mayor “NEGOTIATED, AS MAYOR, ON BEHALF OF THE CITY, to get a developer to agree to “DONATE” eight acres of land to the city as a condition for approval of the Paddocks Development project. She was not authorized to “NEGOTIATE” on behalf of the city, she exceeded her authority, and she constructed what turned out to be contract zoning in the approval of the Paddocks project. The city stole 8 acres of land from the developer, and it isn’t the first time the city has stolen land from a developer. If you don’t believe me on this one go read the laws regarding contract zoning for yourself and you will see that what I am saying is true. Does stealing approximately $2,000,000 from a local developer sound like integrity to you, Brain?
    Three of the five commissioners that currently sit on that commission have been censured for their misdeeds! That means 60% of the commission has been censured!
    The entire commission lacks the integrity to investigate itself and allow the truth to come forth.
    The commission as a body has changed the ethics ordinance to make it nearly impossible for them to be held accountable for their misdeeds under the ethics ordinance!
    At least one of the commissioner has filed a false official statement in their disclosure of interests statement!
    They were planning to illegally use bond funds to pay down a $950,000 credit to the county, the evidence of which is the fact that that they won’t answer my questions and the fact that there is no alternate funding source currently available to pay the credit down. If I were wrong they would have said so by now.
    Brain, I could go on and on, but if I haven’t developed a case to prove you wrong about the “integrity” of the top level of the city government by now you are deaf to the truth and the rest won’t matter.
    As far as it being the leadership’s fault that Mike stole the money being a faulty argument…
    Brian, Randy Robertson is ultimately at fault for everything that goes on in his command. Having been a military man he knows that all too well. It was drilled into his head for thirty years. If a Navy ship is run aground it is the fault of the Capt. regardless of who was navigating or who was at the helm. The navigator and the helmsman may have a price to pay as well, but the Captain is definitely in deep do-do. He typically loses his command and is assigned to a desk or has to resign. I don’t believe you quite understand organizational behavior, Brain. The reason the military places responsibility on the commanding officer is because it ensures that those in charge do everything in their power to develop an organization devoid of mistakes and that is truly professional. It may not seem fair to you that Randy shoulder some of the blame of this issue, but being a military veteran he should understand it very well. Brian, the question of how this could have happened without the city manager knowing about it begs to be asked and answered. The system should have internal checks and balances to ensure something like this “COULDN’T” happen. When you look beyond how nice of a guy Mike is, and how much he will be missed, and how shocked everyone is that he has done such a thing, you have to move on to “HOW COULD SUCH A THING HAPPEN?” How is it that Mike had the ability to do this? Let’s assume that all he got was ten thousand dollars. That would mean that he walked off with nearly thirty percent of the entire census budget! How could he pay himself? How could he get this money over this length of time and yet no one noticed? Brain, Mike is to blame for stealing the money, but someone else is to blame for a system that would enable and allow him to steal so much of the money in the census budget. Don’t be so naïve as to believe that the only issue here is that Mike stole $10,000. I expect that my government has checks and balances to ensure that my tax money is not stolen by employees. Is it too much to ask that the city manager answer for this discrepancy?
    Brain, you, and others, seem to want me to go away and stop hammering these public officials. I say, that had they taken action when I brought violations to their attention, and had they done their jobs, I wouldn’t be on this site, and this site would have come down a long-time ago. They created this situation, not I. I promised this commission that if they failed to act on my complaint that I would not stop. They had a chance to do the right thing, and they failed. Now, I am going to do everything in my power to get three people elected this November who will do the right thing. I am hopeful that the first piece of legislation (Resolution) that they put on the table is to fire Randy Robertson (Not because I have a something against Randy personally, but because he should have never been here in the first place) and re-hire Rob Shearer. I hope Rob takes the job, and then fires the city attorney and hires a city attorney with very long and sharp teeth who is not beholden to the city commission. Then I hope he directs the new city attorney to launch a full investigation into the actions of the people involved in all that has occurred and to, upon reasonable suspicion of wrong-doing, direct prosecution against those who have done wrong and/or petition the TBI to investigate and take appropriate action.
    Brain, I am working on something positive. I am working to rid this city of the disease that it has been infected with and I am working to get three people elected this November who will do their jobs and not violate the law. If you were not so liberal you would realize that what I am doing is necessary and good. They started this by ignoring the law and by violating it, they started this by hurting innocent people and by using their positions of authority to harm others so that they can further their political careers. They had an opportunity to make me go away and they elected not to take it. I made a promise to them that I intend to keep…I will not quit until they have been brought to account for their misdeeds. To do less would be a violation of my beliefs.
    As far as making a difference and your comment about a mayoral position opening up in November, we have already been through this, Brian. Haven’t you been paying attention? I have absolutely no interest in running for local office and I don’t intend to run for local office. I can do more and be more effective as a citizen than I could as a local politician and I stand against any assertion that the only way that I am entitled to be a part of the political process is to be an elected official. I have a right and a duty as a citizen to hold elected officials accountable for what they do wrong. When I see them do something right I have no problem stating my opinion of that as well, and I have. Unfortunately, there has just been so much bad from this commission that all you hear is me blasting them. It doesn’t have to be that way, they can choose to do what is right and good and just, they just won’t. You are misguided if you think that I am the problem. It wasn’t me that fired Bobby, forced Rob to resign, forced Hatton to retire, stole 8 acres from a developer, crafted a sexual harassment complaint and used it like a weapon, etc. You seem to be upset with me because I opine on the matters at hand. Shouldn’t I have a right to voice my opinion and my concerns? Shouldn’t I be fed up with their antics? Shouldn’t I be upset at the way that they conduct themselves in public office?
    As for you and your comments here, Brian, you are speaking to me in this e-mail as an employee, not as a citizen. As a citizen you may have a right to speak to me anyway you please…however, to speak to me in the tone that you have as a city employee is unacceptable. It is no more acceptable than if you were to speak to me in such a manner at city hall. I have not attacked you, nor have a said anything disparaging about you or your department. I have not vilified you. You have a right to your opinion as a citizen, but you really don’t have a right to as a city employee to attack a citizen. I know you don’t understand that because you obviously don’t understand proper organizational behavior and/or proper protocol, so I thought that I would school you a little. I want to make sure that you understand what I have just said. You, as a citizen, a civilian, on your own time, have every right to address me from the perspective of that of a civilian. You don’t have a right to address me in any way you please as an employee of the government. I can say practically anything I want about this government because I have earned that right and because I am a citizen. If I attack you regarding the way in which you do your job you have a right to speak to the city manager about it and ask him to address me, but you still don’t have a right to attack me and call me a cancerous tumor. No matter how much you dislike me, no matter how “pissed off” you get, you still have no right, as an employee, to improperly address me. Brian, I am a citizen of this city and you work for the city, therefore I am your employer, please don’t forget that. That may not seem fair, but it is the truth. The city manager may not stop you from speaking to me, or anyone else for that matter, however, he can admonish you or even fire you if you improperly address a citizen as a city employee. I expect that he will have a conversation with you regarding your post here.

  10. Butch Huber

    final response to Brian

    As far as your comments about choosing to work for the city and accepting the pay scale is concerned, you are off the mark there as well. You, as I have said, are a newcomer. You recently accepted your position, and with your position paying you $59,752 in salary plus health insurance, and retirement of $7,792 you may well be satisfied with your compensation, however, I as a citizen cannot condone this government continuing to underpay the rest of the staff. Perhaps the next payroll committee will keep in mind your obvious joy and elation with your current salary and elect not to include a raise for you in their proposal. It’s easy to speak for the rest of the staff when they have been underpaid for many years and when you have not suffered the lack of appropriate compensation, but to many of them, being properly compensated would be a refreshing change.
    Brian, I encourage you to post as a civilian, from a civilian perspective, as often as you like. I believe you have as much right as a civilian to post on here as I have. However, I would caution you to refrain from posting disparaging remarks as a city employee.
    All of this really has accomplished little. You will continue to stick up for a government that harms others thinking somehow that will get you somewhere and I will continue to attempt to hold public officials accountable for their actions as if that will get me somewhere. In the meantime they will continue to cause harm and hurt people with reckless abandon in an environment devoid of legal enforcement; devoid of legal enforcement except when underlings act like elected officials and begin stealing like they do, then the TBI will be called in to investigate.

  11. Brian Snyder

    Mr. Franklin –

    Let me first say I never received an e-mail from you. I am pretty good about replying to e-mail – but I never saw a note from you in my inbox. And if I had – I’m pretty sure you were fired and are not in my direct chain of command any longer (please correct me if I am incorrect).
    Secondly – if you click on City calendar – all agenda’s are placed there. I have only missed one, and I believe it was simply late getting online because it was late being confirmed and editted.
    Thirdly – yes – I have ceased placing commission meetings online. Should you be interested in watching them, you have two options:
    1. Attend the meeting.
    2. Watch the reply on Channel 3 at 9:00am on Wednesday mornings.
    As for the budget – I have no control over it and I frankly do not know the law surrounding it’s required availability. However, I do know that the budget has not passed the first reading, and is scheduled for a workshot next week, confirmed by an earlier post by Mr. Huber. So until I have something to post, unlike past leadership – I cannot just make the numbers up and hope no one notices.
    As a side note: Didn’t you hire Mike chambers? Maybe you are right, his actions fell into place with the leader who hired him… very interesting.
    As far as your good name – I haven’t been able to locate anyone who believes you have one repeatable in polite company. This site has attempted to soil my reputation and good name in the past, so your hypocritical view is meaningless to me. Debating with you and Butch is similar to wrestling in the mud with a pig. You both get dirty and look foolish, but the pig likes it.
    I wonder just how busy you must be in your new Lakewood city position, to be able to post mid day while I assume your city employees are busy working? Do you or Butch have anything to do, other than this?
    I don’t know you personally, but I find you, your tactics, and your RFMJ comments revolting and a poor facade to disguise your ignorance.

  12. Brian Snyder

    Butch –
    You have very valid concerns about the elected officials. more power to you. You have information on prior commission and mayoral behavior that sounds flawed. I totally agree. there likely have been many things done wrong here, and I hope the truth comes to light and wrongs are righted, and I suspect you are well on your way to accomplishing them.
    However – there is more to the “Mike” story then you know. There were some checks and balances, but clearly not enough. I can guarantee you they are being revamped and there will be a very thorough documented process for when the census happens again. I think the city trusted people to do the right thing and empower them to accomplish as task. No one could have predicted the behavior of one. The city is so understaffed, they don’t have the man power or hours available to cover every possible situation. they do the best they can, given the manpower they have. there is a lot of good work going on in City hall. But all it takes is someone casting negative comments to over shadow all the good.
    If you note the times of my postings – any of them – they are all on my own personal time, after hours. I post as a citizen of the city, who happens to know the inner workings of the current city administration. I admire the City manager. Mr. Robertson, Mr. Holleman, Mrs. Luckett, Ms. Vollett, and every other department head in the city are strong, intelligent, passionate people. They are making a positive difference. Ask the people who work in the city offices, don’t trust me.
    With that said, and as a citizen – I still see you as a person who likes to bully the weak, and you cry foul when we speak up. As a citizen of the city – I believe you, your actions, your comments, and negative energy, when directed at non city elected officials is inappropriate and likened to an unwanted cancerous growth. As a citizen – I can say whatever I want. I think you are angry at someone or something that may have happened to you. maybe someone at the city did a wrong to you some time ago. There must be a reason for your tirades and text diatribes.
    I may not be as well read in TN law and past city commission history as you are, and I may not speak as eloquently as you – but I still believe what I believe, and I know what I see. you, being an old timer, obviously mentally stymied in the city commission past, need to either enforce and bring to light recent wrongs of the commission, or get over it if you cannot change it.
    help the city move in the right direction. I wonder how this next election will go, it will be interesting. Like I stated above – you do have many good and valid comments and questions. I certainly does sound like there was a lot of wrongs done – but from my perspective – you do not have all the facts, and there are ex-city employees who spin wonderful tails of whimsical follies. Remember there are always at least two versions of the story – but this site regularly regurgitates only its own distorted and incomplete edition.
    You have attacked me in the past, maybe not with as much fervor as you do others, but I am tired of the crap you spew. As a citizen that is. You spew hate, anger, and half truths. I say half truths, because some of the stories you are fighting for, only contain half the story. I am sure it’ll all come out eventually. Personally – as a citizen – I still see you as a cancerous growth. I’ll forward this to the city manager… I’m sure as a citizen I have the right to think and say what I want. this is on my time… not the cities time, not your dime. You are not my employer. I do serve for the good of the public, and am paid by city and state tax dollars, but that doesn’t give you the right to demand anything or expect anything from me or any other city worker, in my opinion as a city citizen. As for my salary, I received a raise last week actually. Prior to that – I was making $44,000 a year, and the retirement kicks in after 5 years, so I am not too concerned about that. I am making changes for myself, and I feel for the City.
    It’s interesting how a customer is always right. As a citizen, you are a customer. You are not an owner. City employees are not your employees.
    I’m sure you’re a decent guy, and you have lead a decent life. I believe you are a wise and intelligent man. I just think you are hurting more people than you are helping, and you still piss me off. I still think you are a cancer to the City. I think if justice takes its path, all of the wrongs will come to light. If justice decides nothing was done wrong – then citizens should be able to learn from it, and let it go, and carry on the business of today. The City administration is so buried in cleaning up the mess or past administrators – that they have a difficult time working on the challenges of today. Mr. Robertson is so buried in dealing with yesterdays mess – he likely is finding it difficult to get fully focused on today’s business. The City Commission – that’s another story – you do what you can to right the wrongs. Let the current City administration (and note there is a difference in the administration vs. the Commission – they are different entities completely) clean yesterdays mess and move on to bigger and better.
    There are huge things coming to Mt. Juliet. let’s look forward to what is coming. Let’s monitor the commission for wrong doings moving forward, and correct them as we go. But the way you hold on to the past reminds me of my Grandmother who could only recall her bitter history and not relish in the beauty of what is going on in front of her. I love this City. I respect the City Administration, and have a deep respect for (most) all of the current employees. There are great people there, doing wonderful things. As a citizen, not a city employee, I would like to see you focus on what’s going on now. if there is something wrong currently – bring it up – alert the media, and let the people decide. Let the voters decide. I don’t want a tyrannical maniac like you talking for me. I don’t need you thinking for me. I want to see this City prosper and grow where it needs.
    I believe there are some fundamental things you and I agree on. I agree – hold officials accountable. I agree – they should do the will of the people… and it doesn’t always seem that the City Commission acts that way. I agree. Officials should act with integrity, I agree. Many do, some do not. as a voter, it’s our job to determine which is which and vote them out.
    Butch, I know you are a stay at home school teacher for your family, I know you are a smart person. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m not trying to change your mind. It’s just very hurtful to city employees I believe (as a citizen) to keep going on and on and on about historical things they cannot change. Mr. Robertson has been working on a salary review, I have been told. The administration (I hear) is trying to fix things that are wrong. Give them a chance. Let’s see what time shows. As for the City Commission – that’s an entirely different animal. No city employee is a voting member on the Commission. If the Commission is corrupt – go get em. Do what you need to do. But please acknowledge it’s not the City administration, it’s not the city leaders that are in place. It’s not the current City employed administration at fault. All the employees at fault have been fired (whether you think your all might’s friends were wronged is another story too).
    Do what you feel you need to do. Just remember that as far as I can tell as a citizen, no current city employee has asked for your help. Sometimes, help without consent could be classified as assault. I think some of the city employees feel like you have assaulted them, but as a citizen – I can’t be sure of that.

  13. Butch Huber

    Brian, you don’t want to debate us because you always lose when you try to debate us. There is no basis for your position because you are simply wrong. You can’t take it when someone starts talking about the facts. It gets you all flustered and confused and you get “pissed off”.

    Brian, there is a third option for seeing the commission meeting that you seem to have forgotten, a person can go to city hall and request a copy of the city commission meeting video and pay their king’s ransom of $10 per DVD. I guess you forgot that pesky public records law.

    Brian, would you point out where this site has tried to soil your reputation and good name? Name the post, I don’t think you can. You sure have some really thin skin if you think this site has tried to soil your name. (I don’t know how good it is considering. . . how rude some of your comments have been.)

    As far as you comment about debating Mr. Franklin and I is concerned…
    Brian, I didn’t know you liked mud wrestling.

    Brian, what I do with my time is my business isn’t it?

    Who is revolting and ignorant, Brian? You seem to be the one making personal attacks. Mr. Franklin and I are dealing with the professional activities of people and you are making personal attacks. There is a difference between making a personal attack and attacking one’s actions, but you don’t seem to understand that.

    Brian, I would be careful of how you speak to Mr. Franklin, he could quite possibly soon be your new boss. Election time is coming you know…anything could happen. Also, remember the last lawsuit settled by the city? The plaintiff was re-instated. I don’t know whether Mr. Franklin would be interested in working for Mt. Juliet again or not, but I do believe it will ultimately be an option, should he choose to.

    Come on Brian, let’s really debate the issues. Help me prove that this city needs new leadership at the top. You can’t possibly win a debate with me, there is too much evidence to prove you wrong. Please, please, please debate me. I dare you. I double dog dare ya. Like I said, you won’t debate me because you know you will lose. You can make excuses as to why you won’t debate, but the fact remains, you won’t debate because you know you can’t take me. Brian, you can fool the fans, but you can’t fool the players.

  14. Brian Snyder

    I’ll admit it, I am not as up to date on the history of the city commission as you are. I’ll admit that I forgot about buying the commission meetings on DVD, I know the guy who creates them. I’ll be the first to admit when I’m wrong… second if you ask my wife first.
    As for Mr. Franklin – well I highly doubt he would ever hold office in Mt. Juliet again, but ya never know.
    But if you separate the current city leadership and the current commission, i think we can meet on common ground. I can tell you that the current city admin is doing well and making changes. They may make mistakes, and they are open to correcting them when they realize. I can tell you it is getting better.
    You are right, I can’t fool the players of this farse, because I am not a player. I am just a citizen who sees more than he tells. I know some of the stories from the inside out. I don’t know them all, but I know a few. all I’m trying to get across is that the actions of some don’t reflect the values of the majority. Mike’s mistake was said to reflect on the condition of the city employees as a whole… that’s what made me upset.
    Maybe the Mayor made some huge mistakes. I frankly don’t care, I wasn’t here. Maybe the past administration made some mistakes – again I don’t really care, I wasn’t here and it is in the past (almost anyway). Maybe the current administration has made mistakes – but I haven’t seen any… that doesn’t mean there aren’t any, just none that I am aware of.
    I do believe you are a intelligent man. I believe you have good intentions… for the most part. But I also believe you are hurting as many (if not more ) than you help. Let’s all work together to find a way to fix the problems. I am open to helping. I want to fix things, that’s my job. It’s what I do. I also know that some of the actions the current administration has made, makes them look suspicious. I admit that. But there is cause behind their actions. Consider that they must have some information that the public doesn’t know about in order to make some of the decisions they make. As for the City commission – well your guess is likely better than mine because I don’t understant half of their decisions.
    I guess all i am trying to get across is that the majority of the city employees are honest, hardworking people. They do deserve a pay increase. I agree that they appear to be funding the YMCA and the dog pound. You have valid arguments as far as I can see. But the administration is really doing everything they can to fix it. remember that the administration has no voting power on teh Commission, the city employees take direction from the Manager, who takes direction from the Commission. The city employees have been asked to do things (like the animal control facility) without funding, as you pointed out. They do the best they can with what they have. Give them a break. Go after the decision makers on the Commission. That’s where the challenges lie… and I think you and I share common ground there. Now if you could just come over to the Democratic side of thinking – we might share more ground as well.

  15. Bobby Franklin

    Mr. Snyder,

    First, I apologize for assuming you got the email I sent. I did copy the City Manager and he responded. The email I sent you was not contentious. It was intended to help you. I will search my files and forward what I sent. Maybe I should just post it here since your having trouble getting your email. It will have to be next week.

    Second, I did not hire Mike Chambers. In this form of government the City Manager does all the hiring. Mike did report to me and won several awards while doing so. Jennifer Hamblen conducted the last census done in my department. It cost less than 10,000 dollars and found over 5000 new residents. She received an award for that work.

    Third, there are times when I work very late. Today was one of those days – we had a budget workshop and a Planning Commission meeting. I try to eat lunch late so my stomach doesn’t growl during the meetings. I did post a comment to this site around 2:30 while eating lunch. It’s a good thing because it was 10 pm before I got out of City Hall.

    It takes so long to render the video of these meetings I get the laptop started so the drive home isn’t wasted. In fact, those rendered videos are almost finished being uploaded to the website right now. We try to share our meetings with the public the next day.

    Fourth, in this form of government the City Manager is required to submit a budget to the Commission every year by May 15th. Those submitted budgets have been posted to the Mt. Juliet website for the last 7 years. It is very helpful to the public to be able to inspect the budget before it is approved. That way when the Public is invited to comment they have an opportunity to give the Commission feedback before the budget is adopted.

    Finally, could you tell me who made the decision to stop posting all the above-mentioned information? Has the Commission endorsed that change in policy?

  16. Butch Huber

    Brian,

    If you look at all of my posts you will recognize that the people I am taking to task mostly are the members of the city commission. I may occasionally address the city manager, but only where I honestly feel it is warranted. The city manager does not understand the Mt. Juliet politic and he has made some terrible mistakes. One of his mistakes is to schedule a retreat at Henry Horton State Park. To him, that may have sounded like a good idea, and if our commission was trustworthy and if it had a history of working hard to ensure that the public was aware of the goings on of government it may have been a good idea. But this particular commission cannot be trusted. They work hard to do their business behind closed doors. They flagrantly violated the open meetings laws and they violate the public records laws. Randy Robertson is making a mistake by trusting this commission. I also have an issue with the fact that I have not heard one shred of evidence that he feels even slightly responsible for allowing his organization to run so loosely that someone could steal from the government in the way that Mike stole. Randy Robertson also seems to be working to keep citizens from knowing what is going on inside government. I have heard stories from people inside Mt. Juliet government regarding Mr. Robertson, Brian, and it wasn’t good…in fact, except for you, I haven’t heard one good thing about him from anyone.

    I stated when Mr. Robertson took over that he would spend the first six months cleaning up city hall, making things look ship-shape, making things change as visibly as possible. Then, once the visible changes have taken place and everyone has had their oh-ah and oh-my moments, he would have to prove himself actually worthy of the position by doing something more than just clean up. I have been a part of the change of command dog-and-pony show way to many times not to be able to identify that military trick when I see it. However, the honeymoon is over and it is time see what Mr. Robertson is made of. During a recent commission meeting I watched as Mr. Robertson threw the finance director under the bus when he didn’t have his budget in place for the commission meeting. That showed me two weaknesses in Mr. Robertson, one, he doesn’t know what he is doing with his budget or how to manage the development of the budget and, secondly, he has a propensity to throw his subordinates under the bus when he gets into a pinch. I have little respect for a leader who throws his subordinates under the bus, especially in public. I will admit that I am probably more sensitive to this than most others because I have had more training in this than others. Most people wouldn’t have even picked up on what he did, but I picked up on it. A leader who hangs his subordinates out to dry in an effort to deflect blame or shame is a leader who is out for himself and is not a team builder. If you would like I can take you to the very moment where Mr. Robertson threw his finance director under the bus so that you can see for yourself that what I am saying is true. That moment has been captured in video. He can’t deny it, it is recorded.
    Brian, Mr. Robertson was fired after his first six months in his last position as a city manager. They too talked about how he had “Cleaned things up at city hall”, but they were talking about aesthetics, not personnel. Once they got through their honeymoon period with Mr. Robertson they were done.
    I have asked the city manager some straight forward questions of Mr. Robertson, but Mr. Robertson has refused to answer my questions unless I am willing to go to city hall and sit in a room with him and the city attorney. While I am not afraid to have a go with Mr. Robertson and the City Attorney, I should not have to sit in a room with Mr. Robertson to get the answers to the questions that I have for him. He should be willing and open to answer them any way I choose. He works for us, not the other way around. Further, based on what I have been told regarding how Mr. Robertson has handled other issues with citizens, I am not going to be stupid enough to enter into a room with him and the city attorney without strong witnesses to counter any fabrications that might be told regarding the interaction.
    Had someone queried Rob Shearer regarding issues at city hall he would not have required them to come to city hall to meet with the city attorney, he wouldn’t have to because Rob would simply tell the whole truth; he ran an open government. All the evidence points to the fact that this city is hiding something. Even your last two posts indicate that the city is hiding something and they also indicate you know about it.

    Also, Brian, don’t believe everything you hear at city hall. You probably have not had as much experience with changes of command as I have so you may not understand what happens in a change of command. I covered the first thing an incoming leader typically does, he or she starts making cosmetic changes. They clean things up and start making things look like positive things are happening. But what I haven’t told you is what the workers start doing. Typically, you find a lot of people rallying around the new leader (after all, he/she is the new person in charge and has great influence on the careers of those who remain and most people are going to look after their own self-interests. Those that didn’t fit in in the old regime see the incoming leader as an opportunity to gain favor, position, power and/or authority. As such, they tend to go on and on about the failures, shortcomings, inadequacy and intolerable behavior of the outgoing leader in hopes to gain ground on those who did fit in with the old leader. In fact, those people typically tear down the workers who did fit in with the old regime.) The typical worker, whether they fit in with the old regime or not, when challenged by the incoming leader, will blame any and all issues, shortcomings of the organization, or unfavorable circumstances on the outgoing leader. They say things like, “I always felt that should be done that way, but (Name of the outgoing leader) would never let us do it that way.” or “I tried to tell (The name of the out going leader) that it should be done that way, but he/she would listen.” Only the most honest and trustworthy of workers will accept blame for their own shortcomings and inadequacies and won’t blame them on the out going leadership. A trained organizational leader knows how to weed through the bull and get to the truth. However, some organizational leaders will use this tendency to foster loyalty and obligation to themselves by “allowing” the employee to get away with blaming their shortcomings on the outgoing leader rather than hold the subordinate accountable.

    So, don’t believe everything you hear down there. Remember, Rob, Bobby, and Hatton are not there to defend themselves.

    As far as hurting so many people, who am I hurting? How can I have such sway over this government that by holding the leadership accountable I am hurting the rest of the employees? Brian, your statements on here give me the indication that you are actually working in an oppressive situation and that things aren’t so good at city hall. If what I am doing is hurting the rank and file their is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. When I analyze your posts I get the feeling that what is needed here is more of what I am doing, not less.
    I can empathize with the employees of this government more than you can understand. They had a leader that was truly interested in them and who stood behind them, and now they have a leader who has shown that he has the propensity to throw them under the bus whenever he gets under a little pressure. Rob was tested and passed, Randy wasn’t even tested and he failed. That is the contrast that exists. There are people that work for the government that are scared to death to talk about what is going on for fear of their jobs. I know that things are not good down there and I am doing what I feel is best to fix the situation. You may not agree with my methods, but they are about the only thing I have to work with considering no law enforcement agency will hold them accountable. If the law enforcement agencies would do their jobs and enforce the law against the top leadership of this government I wouldn’t have to do what I do. They are the ones that started hurting people, and unless they are stopped they will continue to hurt people while they pursue their own selfish ambitions and personal agenda. They are not public servants, they are self servants.

    It has been proven that 96% of all problems in an organization are the fault of leadership…management. I have stated on here again and again that this city has a lot of great people working for it…and a few who are not so great. I am not attacking the workers, I am holding city officials accountable. If that hurts the workers than they are going to have to be hurt. That sounds hard and insensitive, but I see no other way. It is better to deal with the evil and stomp it out and be done with it, while enduring suffering in the process, than to allow the evil to remain and endure oppression forever.

    As far as becoming a democrate…don’t count on it. They would have to stop killing babies before I could even think of it as an option. BTW, abortion rights, the right to kill our unborn babies, is by far the most fundamental issue that divides this nation. Stop killing babies and there is hope of one day being able to tackle other issues.

    There is a lot of talk about how I have hi-jacked this site…but there isn’t a lot of talk about how liberalism and the democrats have hi-jacked this city commission. West Wilson County is largely made up of Conservative Republicans. Linda Elam masqueraded herself as a conservative until she achieved what she wanted; the position of “Mayor” of Mt. Juliet. Once she was elected Mayor of Mt. Juliet she turned hard left as she eyed the position of County Executive. Wilson County at large tends to be democratic, so as soon as she got the position of Mayor, and considering the fact that she was eyeing County Executive, it was in her best interest to reveal her true self to the county. There is currently a 4/5ths liberal commission in a very conservative city…how does that happen?

    The problem with liberalism is that it makes no sense. There is no foundation to their arguments. When debating they quickly get backed into a corner and start calling you names. If you press further in it all really gets just too weird.

  17. Butch Huber

    Correction, I have heard one good thing from one person other than you Brian. Just want to be accurate.

  18. Brian Snyder

    1. The City has a leader they can count on for the first time in a long time, inspite of your misinformation.
    2. City hall is filled primarily with conservative republicans… including myself.
    3. City employees are incredible and like a family to me. They do great things with little resources.
    4. There are people in fear of speaking out about their jobs or the work they do, I agree. They are in fear that clowns on this site will attempt to discourage them and disgrace them.
    5. Those who have been fired from the City deserve to have been fired. Period. Mr. Franklin included, and Butch no matter what smoke he blows where the good Lord Split ya, he deserved it too.
    6. Mr. Franklin – show me the ordinance that declares the budget is required to be posted… oh, what’s that? You can’t find it? Yeah – it doesn’t exist. I do not have to post it. There is no ordinance.
    7. Mr. Franklin – you hired Mr. Chambers. He was hired under your leadership. Ingteresting how liers and cheaters stick together. Everyone in the city knows you and they all know the the real story.
    8. It’s easy when you sit home as a Mr. Mom teching your children (which I admire greatly) to cast stones and point out the wrong. As long as you are focused on the elected officials – I have no problem. When you point at the IT director, the City manager, the city employees (which this site does regularly) as corrupt or anything derogative – I take offense and I take it personal.

    Just for grins today, I asked everyone I came in contact with about the performance of the city manager. EVERY person had positive things to say. I am not 100% sure of his past, but unlike the three people on this page – I do not dwell in the past. I see positive things. I agree – the City manager has cleaned up City hall’s aesthics. We are still working on that aspect too. it will be interesting to see if he leaves the city or if he stays and cleans up Mr. Franklins mess…. as he is dealing with now. it will be interesting.
    Mr. Robertson has passed every test so far. He is fighting for more staffing. He is fighting for more $$ to each employee. He is doing the right thing. He has helped several employees leave city employment, something that should have been done several years ago – but the old administration failed to do that.

    Say what you want – but NO city employee I spoke with this week had anything positive to say about past adminstration. I may not be the sharpest debater in the city, I admit that. But I care what goes on there. I care for the people. I care for the citizens I supported. I am anoited to see the problem, and believe God anointed me to helo fix it too.
    I suspect another diety anoited this site to see problems, or make them up, and cause problems. The editors on this site fool themselves into thinking they are helping… YOU ARE NOT HELPING. You are offending city employees. Your negitive comments only bring poor light to the city, and do not reflect the true conditions. 90% of the problems that Mt. Juliet face are brought on by 10% of the people… 3 of which are on this site. Let me repeat myself: NO ONE ON THIS SITE IS HELPING. Butch – you are not helping. Mr. Franklin – it’s sad that you might get city money for your work, but you are a poor leader. I hear that lakewood employees are already complaining. it’s only a matter of time before you are looking for work again. Maybe – Butch being a small business owner – he can hire you.
    I might be at fault for taking things personal, but put yourselves in my position. You two are bashing the city employees. You are grouping us all together and stating that we will fail because you believe the leadership is faulty. Mr. Robertson’s credentials are impecable. He may have been fired from the last position – but do you know why? Yeah – didn’t think so.
    Butch – you are scared to meet with him in city hall. He offered you a forum to voice concerns – you chickend out. All you can do now is ask questions to the commission you already know they won’t answer. Grow a pair and meet with the City manager. He is THE most straight forward person I have ever met. He tells the truth. You challenged me to take you on – grow a pair and take him on. I dare ya. I double dog dare ya! I might not be able to take you on, on this site where you parade your lengthy vomitations (I know it’s not a real word, it is just a good word to describe many posts) and baffle people with BS. But meet with him, and take some one with ya. Go ahead, I dare ya. I’m certain you will come back with a witty response about why you will refuse to take on this task. You will make up some excuse about how he shoud reply to you where ever you see fit. But the truth is that we do not work for you. We are employed to perform work needed by the city. We keep the city running while this site does it’s best to bring it to a screahing halt. Stop mowing your lawn in Willoughby Station, and see if codes enforcement buys into your argument that they work for you. Let them mow your lawn and see if they give you the good citizen discount. I dare ya.
    If God anointed you to see the problems – then he annointed you to fix them too. If you are not annointed by God (Which is what I suspect) then you must be annointed by Satan. And that’d make a lot of sense!
    Well – I am camping, and enjoying time with my family. You have a great weekend… and please don’t mow your lawn. I’ll follow up for ya…
    Do you two understand that most people in the city think you are clowns? (Had to throw that in because I know it’ll get a great reply).

  19. Mr. Snyder:

    Why did Mr. Franklin deserve to be fired?

    – Publius

  20. Butch Huber

    Brian,

    You make statements that you just can’t substantiate. You can’t control your emotions, and when you can’t win, just like everyone else that comes on here and tries to stop me from doing what I am doing, you start calling me names and saying things like “I am anointed by satan” and you call me a “Cancerous tumor”.

    Brian, think for just a minute. Everyone you talk to at city hall knows that you are in the city manager’s camp and that you post on here. Do you think for a moment that anyone at city hall is going to say anything to you that would be disparaging to the city manager? Get a clue!

    You are really going down the same path that all the others have gone down. Like them, you want me to shut up and go away. You want me to look the other way when my government is out of order. You want to sweep it all under the rug. When you can’t debate the issues and win, you start personally attacking me. You start dealing with things that are personal opinions rather than dealing with evidence and fact.

    Brian, I tried to get the District Attorney to deal with this city commission years ago. He told me that the citizens have the ability to handle these problems every four years. His opinion is that we the voters have to take care of this issue, that it is not incumbent upon him to step in and hold them accountable. After years of trying to hold them accountable by asking law enforcement agencies to investigate their flagrant and obvious violations (Go figure that someone would ask a law enforcement agency to enforce the law.), I have come to the conclusion that the only way to bring these folks to justice for their injustice is to make sure that everyone knows what they have done and then take it to the polls. The first goal is to establish a new control over the city commission. Three people who are serious about fidelity in government can control this commission and ensure that the laws are enforced. I am not trying to get anyone sent to jail, as Ray Justice seems to think, I am trying to get to the whole truth. If someone has done something so bad that they should be sent to jail, then so-be-it, but that is a job for a judge, jury and prosecutor. My job as a citizen, and yours, is to hold government officials accountable.

    Brian, you are not going to get me to stop posting the truth. I have a right to do what I am doing, it is called the First Amendment. Brian, you have attacked me on a personal level on several posts without my having attacked you on a personal level, at least not first (I don’t believe I have personally attacked you at all). Mayor Elam is the number one issue that I have dealt with on this site, go back and read all of the posts on this site and point out where on this site I have made a personal attack on her. She has never made a personal attack on here about me, and I have not made a personal attack about her. I have attacked her politically, I have attacked her motives, I have attacked her actions, and I have attacked what she has made public, but on a personal level I have been nice to her. I think she is a very brilliant woman, she is aggressive, she is determined, she is strong, she is intuitive, and I couldn’t care less about her personal life.

    Brian, as far as talking to the city manager, what are we going to talk about? The questions that I have are questions for the city commission. How is he going to answer them? I sent an e-mail requesting information from Randy because members of the commission referred me to him and the city attorney, but after having thought it through, I want the commissioners to answer the questions I have. You see, Brian, if they answer my questions I believe that I can back them right into a corner that they can’t get out of and then they have to admit that what they have done is wrong, and in many cases, illegal. I know that they won’t answer my questions, Brain, but by not answering them they answer them. The people who are watching are smart enough to know that by not answering my questions and referring me to the city attorney, they are too scared to answer me. In other words, they prove their guilt by their silence. If there wasn’t something wrong with what they are doing they would be able to answer my questions very openly and easily. They are hiding the truth and I am hard at work dragging it out into the open. Their problem is that I am able to do it and they can’t stop me. It frustrates them to no end that they are being looked at under a microscope. They brought it on themselves.

    Name one person who works for the city as an employee, other than the city manager, former acting city manager, and the commission that I have made disparaging remarks about. City employees have nothing to fear from me, Brian. I learned a long time ago, if you hold the top level of an organization highly accountable for what they do the rest of the organization tends to stay in line. I have no bone to pick with any rank and file member of city government, in fact, I think the city is mostly filled with very good, hard working, and honest people who want to do a good job. But to say that out of 100 or so people there aren’ a few bad apples would be a mistake. There are always going to be a few people who don’t fit in.

    Brian, until you get the idea that you work for the citizens through you head you are going to have problems. You and everyone person working for the government work for us, the citizens. I just happen to be one of the citizens. I don’t have the right to tell you “how” to do your job, Brian, but I do have the right to scrutinize the quality and quantity of work that you do. I can come to city hall and ask for your personnel records any time I want and the city has to hand them to me. I can come to city hall and look at anything you are working on at any time I want and I can’t be refused. I can look at any work product you have produced, I can ask questions about you, I can see what you are paid, and can put you under a microscope. I think that is a strong indication that you work for me, Brian.

    City government is like a large corporation, the individual shareholders collectively own the corporation, they elect board members, who appoint a CEO and/or president. The board of directors determine the course of the corporation and they give marching orders to the President. Neither the board members, nor the individual shareholders, are able to direct individual employees of the corporation in their work, but if the employees are not producing satisfactory results the shareholders can elect a board of directors who will appoint a president who will fire the wrong people and hire the right people. That is no different with the government of Mt. Juliet.

    There are established protocols and procedures that the city manager and the city commission must follow. When they fail to follow those protocols and procedures they are in violation of the personnel manual or the law. If a rank and file member of the city were to do the same they would lose their job. Why is it different for the city manager or the city commission?

    Brian, you are exemplifying a low level of maturity in the way that you are posting. If you deal with facts, rather than personal opinions, and you accept that the leadership of this government has to follow the law, you can’t argue that this government is out of order.

    Brian, there is a law on the books that states that the city commissioners cannot deliberate on any matter before the city outside a properly called regular or special meeting of the board of commissioners. There has to be proper notice to the public of such meetings and proper minutes of the meeting must be taken. If they deliberate in any other manner any vote taken on the issue discussed is null and void and things must be put back as they were before the vote was taken. The commission was made aware of the fact that the resignation of Rob Shearer was given under duress and in violation of the state sunshine laws, and that any action taken on a vote on the resignation was null and void and that they would have to reverse any action that they take. Now, the question I have to you, Brain, is do laws matter to you? You see, Rob’s resignation should not have been accepted, and there should have been an investigation into the actions of the mayor. But rather than follow the law, they swept the issue under the rug. That is how Randy Robertson ended up with the job. Ray Justice hounded Rob Shearer for years because Ray didn’t like the way that Rob got his job. Well, I don’t like the way that Randy got his job. Am I not to hold Ray, Linda and Ed accountable for their part of that injustice?
    Brian, you are not looking at the big picture here, you are myopically looking at your little world in city government as the I.T director and how what I do affects you in some way (I am not sure how what I do affects you, but I guess it does somehow or you wouldn’t be squawking.) There is more at stake here than how “Comfortable” you are.

    This government is violating everything that America stands for, Brian. We are a federal republic, which means we are governed by law. When government doesn’t have to follow the law, but citizens do, you have a recipe for anarchy. Your example of not mowing my lawn is interesting. Don’t mow your lawn, get hammered, illegally fire people, publicly humiliate people, illegally fire people, steal land, illegally use bond money, give 100% of the people’s money to support 9% of the people…no harm, no foul!

  21. Butch Huber

    Brian,

    One thing to keep in mind about Mr. Robertson. He is fully aware of the city budget, where it has money and where it doesn’t have money. He knows that the city doesn’t have the $950,000 it will need to pay down the credit to the county for the purchase of the MJES site. He knows, as I do too, that without developing an additional funding source the city will not be able to pay that bill without dipping into Bond money, which would be illegal. If the commissioners try to structure a deal to pay down that $950,000 with bond money and Mr. Robertson doesn’t stop them, then he will be derelict in his duties. If he has knowledge that they are intent on using bond money illegally, and he participates in such a scheme, he would be complicit and an accessory. I haven’t heard him mutter one utterance regarding where they intend to obtain the funding…however, I am patiently waiting.

  22. Brian Snyder

    Butch –

    You’re right, I do take it personal I suppose.
    I totally agree with you on many items. Let the people decide. Let the public know wht their elected officials are doing (right or wrong). If they break the law, they should be held accountablle. If ANY city employee breaks the law, they need to be held accountable too.
    I understand that anything any city employee does is public information. You are entitled to see just about any and everything all employees do. It’s public record, part of the “company policy” (more or less) for the company we work for. I believe most employees have no problem allowing you or any other citizen see the work we do. I titally agree with you there.
    To a point – I agree that we work for the city population. We work for the City government. The City government is in place to provide services and guidance to the city residents. Most of the city employees salary comes from Sales tax, primarily paid by people residing outside of Mt. Juliet Proper I believe. I mean to say that I would assume most Mt. Juliet residents support Providence in one form or another, but Providence also attracks many from other cities. City funds also come from Federal state tax dollars… which I know you are aware. To say that I work for “You” because you are a resident of the City, I just have a fundamental difference of opinion. Employees are accountable to residents of the city, and they do provide services to residents. I guess this area for me, is a little grey. City employees are there to work for the good of the city. I encourage you to be suspicious. Be curious and find out if they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. All city employees know the live in that type of environment and don’t have anything to hide.
    As for Mr. Robertson – I can only speak from first hand knowledge of him, his actions, and the ethical practice which I have seen. He is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. He has 10 things going through his head at any given time. I believe he is genuinely a good man and a nice person, as well as a good leader. Just my opinion.
    I don’t know if there are behind the scene schemes going on. I do see that there are challenges with the upcoming budget, and it sure looks like it’ll be interesting to see how they pull it off. If the Commission does something wrong – I’m actually glad to know you are there, because most citizens don’t know the laws as intimately as you seem to. I am happy knowing (and I say this in all honesty) that there are a few people out there like you, really paying attention. I know if something goes south, you will not allow it to be swept under rthe rug. I encourage you to stay steady and monitor.
    Once again I’ll state – my only challenge is when you go after city employees, other than elected officials. City employees already have a tough job, and are under staffed in most departments. They do a lot of work, with little resources and limited hours.
    As for the Sunshine law, I’m aware of that. And to be honest – some of the meetings that take place last minute and little public notice is given, is honestly just that – last minute and not planned well. Seeing the inner workings of City Hall, things change daily and meetings develop rapidly. Is that right? Is that proper procedure? Does it look suspicious? I would say yes, it does look odd. But honestly – I have seen how it happens, and I truly do not believe there are back room deals going on. I have seen the Commissioners try to work together – it’s embarassing for me as a resident of Mt. Juliet. They fight like little boys over a toy. It’s amazing they get much done. I don’t know if the current government is violating everything that America stands for, I think that’s a little dramatic. I do believe they seem to be acting in silo’s, and I’m not sure that their actions represent the total populations desires. I’m torn on the YMCA for example. I’m curious how they will balance the budget, without doing anything detrimental to the City or it’s laws.
    I believe the budget will be posted as soon as it’s appropriate – and honestly I don’t know when that is. I just post when I am told.

    Mr. Franklin – Why were you fired? I’m not priveledged to taht information. I don’t know why… But I believe there is ongoing litigation that will spell it out. I honestly try and stay out of things I have no business in. If I had to guess – I would assume the Mayor had reasonable and just cause to ask for your resignation, but I don’t really know much about it.

    In closing – I know that not everyone is perfect. I know that people make mistakes. I know that for the most part – City government is working. I know that the current leadership (and the only one I know much about) is strong and making positive changes. I know that I don’t understand why the Commissioners do what they do. I think you have reasonable questions for the Commissioners that deserve to be answered. I know that Butch, you spend quite a bit of time formulating your posts, while I sit and write what I feel. I contradict myself and I will say things I shouldn’t or I make mistakes. But I believe we are both passionate about our positions and are trying to do the right thing. I take it personal, and I probably shouldn’t let it get the best of me. It’s like belonging to a team, or a family, and having some one criticise it from the outside. It’s the idea “Family can criticise family, but if someone from the outside does…” which I can’t say is the best mentality – but that’s kinda what goes through my mind.
    I think the public has every right to be critical of the leadership in Mt. Juliet. I think they shoudl be critical, if the past is any indication of the future. But I also think that I trust someone until they prove to be less than trustworthy. If the city leadership let’s me down, I learn from it, laugh at it, and would likely be suspicious of future leaders… as you are. I just realize that there are differences between city employees and City Commissioners. City employees don’t make decisions, they follow the decisions of the Commissioners. So go forward and watch the elected officials. I hope they don’t let us down… and if they do – November is coming and as a voter – we need to let them know how we feel. I appologize for making personal comments towards you, I’ll try and do better going forward.

  23. Butch Huber

    Brian,

    You and I are on the same team. You are concerned for the employees of the city and I am concerned for the employees of the city. I am concerned that the government is functioning properly, and I believe that you are concerned about the proper functioning of the city as well.

    Brian, if you had people who you were friends with and people who were friendly acquaintances with in city hall who were railroaded, humiliated, and wronged, I believe you would take a strong stand against what you perceived as injustice. If you appealed to the law enforcement agencies and pointed out obvious violations of the law and you were rebuffed, I believe you would, based on what I have seen so far, take a stand. You might not take the same type of stand that I am taking and you might go about it differently, but I am sure that you would take a stand.

    I am still curious about which city employees I have harmed other than the decision makers. If you can point out how I have wrongly harmed anyone who works for the city as employees, non-decision-makers, I will certainly apologize.

    Brian, I will be surprised if you are not fired from the city for speaking out against the commissioners. I appreciate your courage to speak your mind about the commissioners, but they have a history of retaliating against city employees…I would be careful if I were you. One of the reasons I do what I do is because I recognize that the employees can’t do it for themselves. You somehow developed a wrong idea of what I stand for. And yes, Brian, this city is doing things that are against what America stands for. You need to go back and read all of my posts, Brian. This means something to me. Posting on here is not something that I do just to pass the time of day. I take what is going on in this city very, very seriously. Brian, wars have been fought, people have died, sacrifices have been made to provide us the kind of freedoms that we have in this country. The laws of this country are not supposed to be unduly restrictive on the citizens, but they are supposed to be very restrictive on government. We are supposed to have maximum freedoms as citizens while the government is supposed to be kept on a tight leash. When they violate laws without being held accountable they are at the same time stepping on those who have sacrificed to ensure that you and I live in a free country.

  24. Bobby Franklin

    Mr. Snyder,

    I cannot understand why you attack me personally on this blog site. We have never met. You could not know anything about me. In fact, you admit that in your last post.

    I choose not to discuss my lawsuit. You should be resourceful enough to find documents and news stories and form your own conclusions if you are really interested.

    You might also read Mt. Juliet’s Charter. It will help you understand the division of powers established for this form of government by the State of Tennessee.

    You continue to claim that I hired Mike Chambers. I did not. He was hired by the previous City Manager, Rob Shearer. I did interview Mike and I did recommend him. I recommended Louis Oliver, Marlin Keel, Isabelle Ford, John Nelson, and Tony Dedman too.

    I also begged the commission to fund GIS a long time ago. There was a very limited amount of money appropriated to hire the first GIS Tech back in 2002. It has always been my policy to give all veterans an interview. They still have to have the best qualifications to be recommended, but veterans always make my interview cut.

    The first GIS Tech was a veteran named John Nelson. He actually built 95% of the Mt. Juliet system. John was very good, starting with nothing; he produced the first GIS system in Wilson County. I wish he could have stayed.

    Not all of the commissioners were enthusiastic about funding GIS. One commissioner kept telling John Nelson that he had the votes to repeal all funding for GIS in the next budget. As the new budget was being debated John decided to take a secure job in Murfreesboro. Mike Chambers was hired to replace John Nelson. Mike was the most qualified person that applied for the job. That commissioner never had the votes to repeal the funding after all.

    I know there is no ordinance requiring the commission meetings to be posted on the web. When something that important is done for 6 or 7 years and abruptly stopped, it begs the questions – who made the decision to stop? And why? I just thought you might know.

  25. The unknown soldier

    Brian Snyder was fired on friday,
    as told by Julie in public works.

  26. Tennessee Jed

    Brian, we hardly knew ye.

  27. Brian Snyder

    Wow!

    You really have to love the entertainment value of this site. Let me clear up something in a hurry:
    The Unknown Soldier: What a disgrace to the name. Do a little research prior to posting. Julie and i know the truth. Do you?

    Quite frankly the Rob, Bobbi and Harold tirades are not only meaningless but tiresome and tremendously boring. Not only does Shearer hide behind a facade; too scared or immature to let the handful who follow the Blog know who he really is (but everyone really does), but then insults me by thinking I will discuss a matter of litigation on this site. Then Butch, never one to let a simple thing like a fact get in the way of a good arguement, talks about how much he thinks I earn without a clue to the truth. What he quoted was the amount budgetted for next year. Funny how he complains about the lack in ability for the Public to get a copy of the budget, yet he has it. The third stooge is good old Bobbi who really had to stumble around with a flimsy excuse when I caught him in the middle of duty time posting on his buddy’s blog. Very, very sad. Wonder if his leadership is impressed. Let’s never forget he was a UPS truck driver, who was also the former mayor’s campaign manager. Talk about a conflict of interest. Guess that job well qualified him for the city planner position . . . But no one will never say a word about that or the zoning administrator who worked for Bobbi and Rob who had been accepting dollars from developers for her daughter’s beauty pagents. The hipocrisy of those three and the sheer magnitude of their lies and greed is extremely frustrating and incredibly saddening. Since the three all go to the same church I’m sure they have ample time to plot a new conspiracy. maybe it is time for that bomb shelter… but make sure it has a good wifi signal!

    Anyways . . . I have rambled too much. It is just sad that the “editors and moderators” and dare I say “major contributors” don’t move on and look for opportunities to build rather than ways to tear things down. I wonder what they tell their spouses when asked what value they made today? How do you, as a Home School teacher, explain your comments to your children? Or maybe you don’t cover this in “Government” classes. As often as you post during the day, it’s difficult to figure out when you actually teach them, but again that’s not for me to judge. Oh – you looked good at the budget review the other night, that was a nice shirt.

    Mr. Franklin – if I understand Butch’s comments correctly – you are suing the city for your position back. Seriously? Before you post another reply on Lakewood’s time – I have to wonder how the city government there looks upon that idea? I hear it’s not going well there for you already… the past is bound to repeat itself I suppose.

    In closing (again) – I must believe that in this sites ignorance, you all believe you are contributing in some way, and that somehow you are making a positive difference. Let me clear that misconception up for you. You are not. Get a life. Move on. Contribute to society. Run for Mayor (unless your criminal backgrouds preclude you – which would explain a lot). Make a positive difference in the world. is this what God put you here to do? Seriously?

    Jed – I’m still here. Wanna buy me a beer?

  28. “Not only does Shearer hide behind a facade; too scared or immature to let the handful who follow the Blog know who he really is (but everyone really does), but then insults me by thinking I will discuss a matter of litigation on this site.”

    Mr. Snyder:
    A) If I were hiding, I’d do a better job of it. I contribute now and again to this web site because I think the government of Mt. Juliet functions better and the citizens are better served when there is more information, not less.
    B) I didn’t “think” you’d discuss a matter of litigation on this site – I noticed that you had already begun to do so. In an earlier post you stated that Bobby Franklin deserved to be fired. I wondered why you thought that, and how you could so confidently assert it. I still wonder . . .
    C) Yes, there is a copy of the budget available on this web site – but not on the city web site. Does that not strike you as unusual? Is the city making it easier or more difficult for citizens to get information about what the City Commission is doing?
    D) Again you malign Mr. Franklin with false charges. It hardly takes 5 minutes of a coffee break or lunch to check one’s email and compose a reply. Does the City of Mt. Juliet not give employees any breaks during the workday? And Mr. Franklin’s position with UPS was hardly that of truck driver. Do you know what a distribution center manager does? Do you know who pioneered the field testing of the UPS hand-held electronic tablets?
    E) We don’t all go to the same church.
    F) Read Mr. Franklin’s lawsuit.
    G) We are making a difference, and plan to continue doing it.
    – Rob

  29. Bobby Franklin

    Mr. Snyder,

    I have not posted to this or any website on my employers time. Your April Fools prank is legendary. Was that done on Mt. Juliet time?

    If you want to read my lawsuit just ask for it at Mt. Juliet. It is a public document.

    You have never answered my question about why you are attacking me personally. We have never met and I cannot imagine what I have done to offend you.

  30. Butch Huber

    Mr. Snyder,

    I have not, to my memory made a single nasty comment about you on this site or anywhere else, yet you continue to malign my character and cast dispersions about me. All you are accomplishing with your remarks is to prove that you are not worthy of being considered. You are wasting your breath trying to get me to stop posting on this site and you don’t have anything to add to the discussion, so why waste your time?

    You say that I complain about how hard it is for the public to get a copy of the budget…when did I complain about how difficult it is to get the budget? I don’t remember complaining about it being difficult to obtain a copy of the budget. Could it be that you are stretching the truth? Hmmm.

    If the posts that I make are tiresome, meaningless and boring, why tune in? Why not go to a meeting of the Mt. Juliet liberal’s society instead?

    Brian, point out where I have lied or show me how I am greedy.

    Brian, I am not a homeschool teacher and I can do with my time what I want. Interesting how you are so concerned with what I do with my time. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands as well, Brian.

    Brian, I wonder if the people in the mid-west, or the people in New Orleans, or the people in Mobile think it is such a bad idea to have a comprehensive disaster preparedness plan. Brian, if you had to pick one or the other, what sounds better to you, a $20,000,000 gift to the YMCA or a comprehensive disaster preparedness plan? I still go for the disaster preparedness plan. Fall out shelters are not a bad idea, except for the fact that people like yourself would be entitled to access in the case of an emergency. You would sit in the shelter and be protected and all the while would complain about the cost and irritate the rest of us.

    Brian, perhaps you would do well to get some help.

    Perhaps you are right, Brian, perhaps we aren’t accomplishing anything, but then again, you could be wrong.

    Good luck in your new position, and by-the-way, I never said you were fired; I gathered that you resigned. Can’t say that I have shed a tear about that though.

    Brian, you opened this post by saying that you love the entertainment value of this site and only a few seconds later you stated that we are tiresome, meaningless and boring…what’s up with that? Are there two of you in that body of yours?

    Let me help you, Brian, don’t read my posts. If you continue to try to keep up with what I am posting I am afraid you will come completely unglued and your head will pop off. Just ignore me, Brian. I am not posting for your benefit anyway, so why get yourself so upset. You have to know that you aren’t going to stop me from doing what I am doing, so why frustrate yourself and get yourself all worked up? Instead of spending your time reading my posts go to a meeting of the liberal’s anonymous group and get some help.

    No, Brian, Bobby hasn’t said anything about wanting his job back. I said that he could end up being your new boss because the city commission voted to re-instate the last person who sued the city and it could be quite possible that the city might have to offer Mr. Franklin his job back as a condition of the mediation. I made that statement before I found out that you were leaving the “Family” down at city hall. Interesting how you so quickly adapted to the crowd at city hall and made them your “family” and then as soon as you get another offer you split.

    Brian, we are building…we are just not building the liberal society that you envision in your daydreams. We actually want to have commissioners that follow the law….go figure.

    Publius, I would suggest that you not allow people who simply want to make personal attacks rather than deal with the issues to post on this site any longer. I know that they have provided entertainment in the past, but we are fast approaching election time and there are some serious issues that need to be dealt with. Currently there is little time available to deal with this type of inane exchange. I don’t mind people attacking ideas or behaviors, but personal attacks should be beneath this site. I suggest that when someone makes a personal attack that the post be sent back for rewording until the post is dealing with the issues and not personally attacking. BTW, if you want to really piss off a liberal make him provide foundation to his position before you allow him to have a voice. They can’t stand it when you make them produce facts.

    Brian, good luck and get some help.

  31. Brian Snyder

    Butch –
    First off, I’m not a liberal. I moved from california to get away from that society.
    Second – I think the old saying goes like this:

    When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the only one who yelps is the one who got hit.

    Perhaps you got hit?

    I figured eventually you would want to quiet me, and suggesting that I be banned from posting here, when the city employees and residents need to hear from me the most is exactly what I thought would come eventually.

    Lastly: According to http://honestedu.org/view/display.php?state=TN
    “Harold Huber
    Mt Juliet, 37122
    I am a homeschool dad. I am a small business owner. I love my family. I am a Christian. I love people. I am republican for want of a better party.
    Why I Signed: I have done extensive research to determine if and how we can fix the current education system. Not only is it broken beyond repair it was doomed from the beginning. Our system was designed to overcome immediate needs without the benefit of long-term vision. The system has served us in some areas, but it is now in need of replacement. I believe there is a better way. I believe that capitalism is the answer.”

    If you are not a home school dad, might that suggest you lie on other pages as well?

  32. Sonny Griffin

    Mr. Snyder,

    Your 28 May, 2008 post was directed at three individuals: Mr. Huber, Mr. Shearer and Mr. Franklin.

    In that post, you stated that all three of these gentlemen have criminal backgrounds. The following is what you said.

    “Run for Mayor (unless your criminal backgrounds preclude you- which would explain a lot).”

    You assert as a fact that they have criminal backgrounds. If you were simply alleging that they had criminal backgrounds, you would have said (unless you have criminal backgrounds which would preclude you- )

    Since you like to deal in facts, where did you get your information about their “criminal backgrounds”?

  33. Chris Sorey

    I have to chime in. I just can’t resist it any longer. Surely everyone remembers that posts are just opinions, right? Seems that people are forgetting that it is OK to have a different opinion. Here is mine.

    The owners of this site don’t actually live in the city, and try to spin everything written in the papers. A few weeks ago the main post was “slow news week”. Nothing about a cruising ordinance that was shot down, etc. Why? Well, my opinion is that this site is not in place to inform people, but to spin anything that is out there. It has been said before, this site could be a great asset. It “appears” to be used for spite. Again, just my opinion.

    Mr. Franklin, I would think it is safe to assume that you don’t live in the house you own in MJ either, and it is most likely a rental. Not trying to get a big argument going on that topic, or your suit. Just an observation.

    My point being that you obviously can’t vote or run for the mayor or commissioner seats if you don’t live in the city. You aren’t taxed at the 0% property tax rate we have, nor do you recieve city services. That leaves me to believe that this site is set up because certain people believe they got a bad deal. More people thought that before this site was put in place than do now. Again, just my opinion.

    Butch though, man you crack me up. I had to stop in every week or so and skim the posts, and although you say you have not attacked anyone on here, you know that you have. Does it matter? Not at all. Either way, you seem to enjoy this site, and everyone needs a hobby. I feel I should point out though, the Y is 2 million, not 20 million, whether it is a good idea or not. Anything over that figure they are own their own to raise. And while we are on that topic, you were in favor of building bomb shelters instead of public parks, not the Y. That discussion was long before the Y was ever mentioned. The idea of censorship from you though does not suprise me.

    OK, now the real shocker. Out of nowhere last week, Randy Robertson called me up and asked my opinion on a few different issues. Nothing on the record, and again, he just wanted my opinion. When we have disagreed on multiple issues, including some that were very public, you have to hand it to a guy who calls up the person on the other side of those issues and asks for their opinion. You also have to take into account that he was not here when most of those issues took place, and none of us likes cleaning up after someone else. (Not pointing any fingers with that last one) The call was after normal working hours, and we spoke for around 40 minutes on a variety of topics. While I still doubt I will be invited to dinner on Sunday, he made an effort. I think that is the Randy Robertson that Brian sees Monday through Friday.

  34. Brian Snyder

    Mr. Griffin –

    You bring up a good point… if you choose to read it that way, I see where you are coming from. Everyone has a criminal background in my mind. Either they have broken laws in their cars, taken a pen from a waiter, taken a pencil from school,received too much change, or what have you; maybe they have been caught, maybe they haven’t. If you have been caught, then possibly your criminal background is documented. If you haven’t ever been caught or convicted – then your criminal background is clean. If you choose to read more into that – it’s your choice. But I’m certain there are larger fish to fry than the use (or misinterpretation) of a single word.
    As for the fact I assert that they have criminal backgrounds – I never suggested that they have been caught. I posted no statements saying they have documented criminal backgrounds… but now that you bring it up… how would I know if they do or not? If you have read any of my postings, I’m not really shy about calling a clown, a clown. If I wanted to suggest something, I’d post it as clearly as I could.
    It goes back to the theory about throwing a rock into a pack of dogs. the only dog to yelp is the one who was hit.

    Butch – many of your facts and figures are wrong – I just don’t spend the time to correct you (as Mr. Sorey has several times) or read most of your posts. I have read a couple in the past, and I do browse through them, looking for some new information – but I find you typically repost the same thoughts and letters, over and over, in different places – but it’s all the same thing. Blah, Blah, Blah.

    Butch – I applaud you for looking at the Commission for wrong doings. I have said it over and over. More power to ya. Do what you do, and if there is something wrong – I am sure you will point it out (over and over and over). it’s clear that you are campaining for your friends – the same ones who were fired from the city (unlike myself). Everyone sees it. You don’t claim to want an elected position – but you do want to terminate everyone who replaced those your Bible class. It’s so hypocritical to me (and yes I know that’s not a complete sentence – I just don’t care enough to send you the very best).

    Butch – all I am trying to get across is that the people employed by the city are good people. I love working for the City, and recommend it to anyone who is lucky enough to get a job here.

    Butch – I enjoy making a difference (which I actually have). I love helping (which I actually do). It’s a great palce to work, inspite of some of the people posting here, that enjoy throwing rocks at us from the outside. The City employees take direction from their managers, who take direction from the BOC. We do what we are asked to do.

    Butch – we all have tasks that we are assigned, and that’s what we do. We do not typically make procedural change decisions, Butch (although I have when it comes to the web). Just because it was done for 6-7 years didn’t make it a policy or great idea… but that’s another story. So monitor everyone, and find everything if that’s what you want to do. I’m not ever going to ask or suggest that you Butch, or any other resident of this Great City do anything less.
    Butch – just remember that some of the postings and rantings here, do hurt people… whether you are sensative and responsible enough to realize it.
    Above you state:
    “…but personal attacks should be beneath this site. ”

    Butch – for the most part – that is exactly what this site has been built for… maybe you are the only one being fooled.

    Butch, this site appears to be specifically to attack the city, it’s employees and the policies they adhere to.

    Anything new you want to add? Anything positive you would like to say? Yeah – didn’t think so.

  35. Bobby Franklin

    Mr. Sorey,

    I have lived in Mt. Juliet going on 26 years and continue to live here. You are traveling on bad information, again. We did spend last weekend on Dale Hollow Lake but came home Monday. Its great to be missed so.

    You are certainly welcome to check this out. I will be home working on my honey-do list this weekend and you are welcome to inspect the premises for signs of recent residence change. One look in my garage will convince you that no one has moved in or out of here in a long time. It is on my list to clean so come early.

    Your comments about Mr. Robertson do not surprise me. He seems like a very conscientious person. There is no doubt that he could be a great City Manager. The assumption that I am against him for some reason is incorrect. I am vested in his success, not failure. I live here and plan on living here a long time.

    I am for open an honest government and think you are too.

    Where did you get the idea that I had moved?

  36. Chris Sorey

    Tax records???

  37. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    Mayor Elam was proposing a twenty-million dollar aquatics center for the city that would be turned over to the YMCA. You obviously are not up on what has been going on no matter how many times I have posted it on this site; you must leak because I know you have been reading my posts. Commissioners who are voting for the YMCA donation at the Old MJES site are using what I posted regarding this matter as part of their justification for their decision to donate this 8 acres. I told them that if they, the vice mayor and the other three commissioners, couldn’t stop the mayor from giving away twenty-million dollars to the YMCA any other way, then I agree with giving them these 8 acres. That doesn’t excuse them for being so weak that they can’t stop her, it just is stating that I would prefer 8 acres @ $2,000,000 over $20,000,000. THAT IS AN EASY CHOICE FOR ME.

    Chris, let it go, I toyed with you over the whole bomb shelter issue and you know it. Would I rather see the city spend public money on issues like disaster preparedness programs rather than spending public money on a park? Yes, I would. I prefer my family be safe than to have my family socially engineered by government any day. Parks can be built by memberships, just like a YMCA membership, but disaster preparedness really has to be coordinate through government because they have policing powers. Did I say that we need to build a $20,000,000 bomb shelter? No. If the city were going to spend $20,000,000 on either a disaster preparedness program or give the YMCA a $20,000,000 gift, which would I pick? A disaster preparedness program everytime. I am not bashful about that. A disaster preparedness program is intended for all of the citizens and the gift to they YMCA would only serve 9% of the people. That is an easy question to answer. Where would you spend it, Chris? Would you give it to the YMCA? I mean if those were the only two options, what would you do? I played you like a school boy over this issue before, Chis, and I did so because I had other motives. I let you lead the debate, and I sucked you in as a result, but if you would like to actually debate the merits of a disaster preparedness program as opposed to a gift of such enormous proportions to a non-profit entity, I would be glad to accept your challenge.

    Brian, I am a homeschool dad. You bet I am. I am for the TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE abolishment of the public school system as it is and I am for putting in its place a system that allows teachers to actually educate students and a system where parents have control over the context and content of the education of their children. All combined America is spending between $720,000,000,000 and $1,400,000,000,000 (The actual amount is very difficult to pin down because there are so many hidden sources of income that are nearly impossible to identify or quantify) each year on a flawed system! The definition of insanity is doing something the wrong way again and again, using the same processes, same ingredients, and procedures, and continuing to expect the process to somehow change and produce a desirable result. That does not mean that there aren’t a lot of well-intended, sharp, good natured people inside the education system in this country, it just means that I think they should have a better system within which to work. The public school system in America was flawed as a system of education from the very start, but today public school has devolved into a liberal social engineering system through which the liberal left is able to brain wash our nation’s youth with such programs that teach social tolerance for abhorrent and deviate behavior and through moral relativism. I just think there has to be a better way to educate our children than what we have in our public school system. I invite you to debate me on the merit of the public school system in this country any time you feel froggy. However, what I stated is that I am not a homeschool “teacher”. That is not a lie. I don’t do the teaching, my wife does the teaching, at least when it comes to academics. I am a dad, a dad of children who are schooled at home. But to be more accurate, my children attend a satellite school of a faith based private school, which is conducted largely in my home and which includes only my children. You see, I didn’t lie. You are the one who needs to get your facts straight.

    Chris, please tell me where I have launched the first volley to attack even one person on a personal level on this site, I have attacked policy, position, ideals, ideas, actions, behaviors, political beliefs, etc., but I defy you to find even one occasion where I have attacked a person on a personal level unless and until they have attacked me first. If you can’t put up, shut up.

    Chris, I have come back on this site on more than one occasion and apologized for posts that I have made that were too colorful and/or too aggressive, which is something that I don’t ever recall you having done. In fact, rather than admit that you were wrong for a post that you made and accept that it was right to be moderated, you have tried to launch your own site so that you can spew whatever dispersions you choose. I on the other hand, apologized for my improper retort and have accepted the moderation of my post and have even thanked Publius for moderating my posts. You see Chris it is about morality and character, not free speech. You don’t have free speech on this site…it isn’t your site.

    The censorship that you speak of is actually moderation, and there is nothing wrong with it. You shouldn’t be allowed to post on this site unless you have something of value to add to the discourse. Launching personal attacks does not add to the discussion, and therefore should not be allowed no matter who is doing the attacking. It is immature, bane, and ridiculous and should not be tolerated. My position on this matter holds true no matter who is doing the attacking. If I have been guilty of attacking someone on a personal level I have been wrong. If you can point out to me where I have attacked someone on a personal level I will write a public apology on this site, even if the person that I have attacked attacked me first. Wrong is wrong, no matter how distasteful it may seem to admit it. Point out the instances and I will gladly make my apology. However, when you do be aware that I will make sure that the public knows the rest of the story. It is not the same, although still not right, when I respond forcefully, and in like kind, to a personal attack as it is when the first personal attack is made. In other words, if you personally attack me, you really should expect a corresponding personal attack. My problem with myself is that I have actually responded in that manner rather than rise above it, which actually lowers me to the attacker’s level. I don’t believe you will find even one situation where I have made a personal attack on anyone, not even one person, who has not attacked me first. Just because I am better at the attack than the rest of you doesn’t mean that I attacked first, or even that I was right. On the other hand, you will find ample situations and instances on this site where I have attacked policy, procedure, ideals, ideas, philosophy, behavior, actions, political positions, etc., and in most of those cases I have attacked first and I have attacked constantly. I am not ashamed or embarrassed for standing up for what I believe, nor will I ever be ashamed of standing for my beliefs. I have no problem explaining why I believe what I believe, either.

    Mr. Sorey, posts are not opinions in every case. Laws are pretty clear cut. They are not a matter of opinion, or at least they shouldn’t be. Public policy is not a matter of opinion, or at least it shouldn’t be. Your statement answers a question I posed to a couple people earlier today. That question is “why do people like Brain Snyder and Chris Sorey (actually I used the name common sense. Just want to be accurate.) attack on a personal level rather than address the issues?” The answer is that you have no foundation for what you state or for what you believe. You can’t back up your claims and assertions with concrete evidence, or even a standard belief system. When you speak of things like law and public policy you speak of them, at least when it suits you, from the perspective of what you believe it ought to be instead of how it actually is. The problem with that type of thinking is that of the nearly 7 billion people on this earth there are an equal number of opinions. Sure, there are large groups that have relatively the same basic set of beliefs and opinions, however, when you come down to it, counting the variations that exist in the conscious thoughts of each person within each general grouping, there really are as many sets of opinions as there are people. So if you base a position on opinion you are on shaky ground. That is tantamount to going back to the knuckle-dragging days when the biggest guy was in charge regardless of how much of an idiot he was. In a world where everything is judged based on personal opinion rather than decided, established, and agreed upon written law, the biggest, strongest, nastiest person’s personal opinion is the only position that matters and the rest of society has to bend to that one person’s will, because if they don’t bend to his will they and their family will be killed. Your post hear reveals why you and others launch personal attacks rather than deal with the issues. You, and they, know that if you actually try to discuss the issues you will be quickly shown to be wrong, so you attack personally rather than risk losing. Guys, it is okay to be wrong as long as you are wise enough to accept when you are beaten and you change positions as a result. However, any man proved to be wrong, and who knows he is wrong, and who still doesn’t change positions is a fool.

    I will take any one, or all, of you antagonists on regarding the issues if you will deal with the issues rather than launching personal attacks. The problem is, I don’t think you are able to discuss the real issues without making personal attacks. Attack my position, attack my ideals, attack my ideas, attack my behavior, attack my actions, attack anything about me you want, but don’t launch “personal attacks”. What good does it serve you to launch personal attacks? I have proven on this site again and again that your personal attacks always backfire on you and make you look ridiculous, so why keep wasting time on them? Are you afraid to deal with the real issues? Are you afraid of being proven wrong? Are you afraid that I will make you look sophomoric? I dare you to seriously challenge me on the issues…pick one!

    This site is not about attacking the city, the employees, or city policies. This site is about getting the truth out there. Unfortunately, for some the truth doesn’t matter. Still, and even more unfortunately, some go to great lengths to conceal the truth. They would rather sweep the misdeeds under the rug and move on. That kind of thinking is flawed. That kind of thinking is what gets us the President Clintons of this world. That kind of thinking keeps us from having the very best as our leaders in this country. In my lifetime there has only been one President that I truly and fully looked up to and admired and that was Reagan. You may differ in opinion on him, but I think he quite possibly could have been the greatest President we have ever had. But what made him so great? He had the courage to lead with passion and he had the courage to stand for what he believed. He actually believed in America and what it stands for and he wasn’t afraid to stick up for what is good and right with America. He gave us back our dignity. He restored our faith in our country. He had a strong moral core. He had a firm foundation. That is what I want to see in every elected office in this country. So if you start from that basis, how can I look the other way when I know for a fact that my local commissioners are violating the law? You are welcome to pull any position I have taken out and we can debate it for its merit based on law and not on opinion. Debating based on opinion is simply a recipe for hurt feelings and hostility. Debating on concrete laws and policy is something that can lead somewhere. (Don’t get me wrong, you don’t hurt my feelings, I honestly couldn’t care less what you or others like you think about me. But you seem to get your feelings hurt and get all flustered and I don’t want to see you self-destruct.)

    Mr. Snyder, you state that you are not a liberal, but that position is subjective. You are not a liberal compared to what? Or compared to whom? Hillary Clinton? Ted Kennedy? Bill Clinton? Howard Dean? B. Hussein obama? John Kerry? John Edwards? or perhaps, Barbara Boxer? Being right of those folks doesn’t make you a conservative, Brian, it just makes you a little closer to normal and a little more rational and sane. It appears that you want to become a “Conservative” Brian. Congratulation on your road to recovery! (You see, I am not attacking you on a personal level here, I am referring to what I perceive to be your political and philosophical positions based on your words, deeds, mannerisms, and actions. And I am asserting my belief that all liberals need to be saved from themselves and each other…a mind is a terrible thing to waste! Brain, who is your liberal’s anonymous sponsor?)

    And finally, to both Mr. Sorey and Mr. Snyder, I know that you read my posts. You read each and every word. You can’t wait to hear my responses to your posts. You are amazed at my skill at tearing you to pieces. It frustrates you, but you can’t get enough. It is intoxicating to you. You scour each and every one of my posts hoping to find a place where I have made a misstep or mistake so that you can launch into one of your attacks. Except for the rare occasion where I have been wrong, you always come away depressed, knowing that I have beaten you once again. HA, Ha, Ha. It has to be very, very frustrating for you both, but you can’t let on that I frustrate you because you have to keep up your image at the “liberals ‘r us club”. A liberal is always right in their own minds, at least as far as the conscious mind is concerned. And the reason for that is because they base everything on “personal opinion”. If you base everything on personal opinion how could you be wrong? Unless you have split personality disorder…which I suspect of a couple of you…and when I say a couple of you I am referring to just one of you. However, the thing that frustrates a liberal is knowing in their subconscious that they are simply wrong and the evidence shows it. They can’t quite reconcile the equation that exists in their thought life…Here is that equation…”how can something be right in my conscious mind and be wrong in my subconscious mind?” The though never crosses a liberal’s mind that a matter cannot be right consciously and wrong subconsciously. Brian, Chris, listen to the inner voice, it is righteousness calling out to you.

    This has been a lot of fun, but can we get some business done now?

  38. Brian Snyder

    To all –
    I just want to make a couple points. It’s is widely assumed on this site that the City government is hiding things. It’s a common theme that there is no checks and balances. It’s also thought that actions have been taken without legal oversight or audits. I get the impression that there must be a conspiracy going on in this city, after reading posts here. Can I point out one thing… Don’t you realize that there are state and federal agencies monitoring city government? Don’t you realize that TBI investigates Mt. Juliet? Don’t you realize that no city government works in a vacuum? Doesn’t anyone realize that our city government likely checks and double checks facts and figures? Do you think that the City Commission and city government are trying to sneak the YMCA through without any checks and balances? Do you really believe they are trying to fly under the radar and get the Y done without making sure they are doing the right thing?
    I was not fired from the city. I am working part time, still working on several projects. I have found a new job and am sad to leave this family. I truly loved working here… so much so I am trying to keep it going part time. The City is a great place to work.
    Mr. Franklin – I believe one point on your suit with the city clearly states you are asking to be reinstated.
    It’s clear to me that I will never convince the “moderators” here that there are opinions other than their own. I know you will always have the last word, or two… I know better than believe otherwise. You are all entitled to your opinions, and more power to you. I wish you all health, and best of luck, preferrably in another city. I’m done here.

  39. Aunt Bea

    Chris Sweetie,

    Re: Mr. Franklin’s residence

    I hope the Smyrna Airport P.D. is not paying you for your detective skills.

    Aunt Bea

  40. Aunt Bea

    Brian Honey,

    With all this talk about criminal records, I’d be careful about how many pages you might be adding to someone’s “Reasons to Sue Brian Snyder for Slander” file.

    Aunt Bea

  41. Bobby Franklin

    Mr. Sorey,

    Is it possible that you are looking at someone else’s tax records? That would explain why my house is not shown as their residence.

    BTW, Why are you trying to look at my tax records?

  42. Butch Huber

    Brian,

    I guess you answered my question. Instead of an honest open debate of the real issues, the real business at hand, you run away.

    Folks,

    There you have it. When it comes to a challenge of debate based on laws, policy and on facts, they simply won’t rise to the challenge. The reason is, they know they can’t win. They say that they are leaving because they don’t want to “get down in the mud” or they say that we are always going to “get the last word”, or they say that talking to me (us) is a “waste of time”. But the truth of the matter is that they are more than willing to get “down in the mud” by making personal attacks about my character and they attempt to “get the last word” and they are more than willing to “waste their time” until the discussion turns to one of law, policy and fact…then they always run away.

    Brian: you obviously haven’t been watching if you think that this city has the level of inter-governmental oversight and inspection/investigation it should have.

    Brian: Aunt Bea and Sonny Griffin have both made great points. You have included me in the post you made about criminal backgrounds. Brian, in this country, a man is innocent until proven to be guilty in a court of law. Yet you say:

    “Everyone has a criminal background in my mind. Either they have broken laws in their cars, taken a pen from a waiter, taken a pencil from school,received too much change, or what have you; maybe they have been caught, maybe they haven’t. If you have been caught, then possibly your criminal background is documented. If you haven’t ever been caught or convicted – then your criminal background is clean.”

    Does that mean that your mom and dad and sweet old grand mom are “Criminals”? No, Brian, I think you realized you stepped over the line when Mr. Griffin posted on this site. You are on record as having said that I have a criminal background, and that the crime/s that I have committed is/are so serious that it might preclude me from running for the office of Mayor. You try hard to back pedal, but the rest of us can see exactly what you are doing. Ironically, in the same statement you contradict yourself. You say that “everyone has a criminal background in your mind because they have either broken laws with their cars, taken a pen from a waiter, taken a pencil from a school, received too much change, or what have you, and then later on in the same statement you say that if someone hasn’t been caught or convicted-then their criminal background is clean. Let me re-analyze what you have said. Your statements make the point that you believe that I have a criminal background, and that to have a criminal background one must have been caught or convicted. Therefore, I must have been caught or convicted. Now, I will hand it to you, you really have tried hard to cover you tracks by lowering the bar of what you consider “Criminal” by including receiving too much change as being a crime. However, couched inside the posts you have made here is the assumption that I wouldn’t run for office because of my criminal background.

    You said: “Run for Mayor (unless your criminal backgrouds preclude you – which would explain a lot).”

    I don’t recall the last time someone wasn’t allowed to run for office because they got a speeding ticket, stole a pen from a waiter, stole a pen from a school, or received too much change. No, Brian, I think you were trying to say that I am a criminal, that it is your hypothesis that the only reason I don’t run for mayor is that I have a criminal past, and therefore, the crime that I have committed is one of sufficient level of seriousness that it might preclude me from running for the office of mayor.

    According to the standards you have established here, Brian, you are the criminal. You see, a person cannot deny a philosophy or position that they strongly hold, and they can’t deny what they know to be true in their heart and mind, so unless you are lying about what you believe, you believe everyone has a criminal background, because everyone has either broken laws with their cars, stolen a pen from a waiter, stolen a pencil from a school, received too much change, what have you. You don’t get to use the escape clause that if a person has not been caught or convicted because you know what you have done. Since you assert that “EVERYONE” has committed some act that would rise to the level of the commission of a crime, and since you basically admit that you too have done such things, and since you know in your heart and mind what you have done, you have caught and convicted yourself, therefore you are the criminal.

    Now for the real question, Brian. I sense that you feel the need to come clean. What have you done, Brian? What lurks in your past that you are afraid will come to the forefront where everyone can see just who and what you are? I mean, based on what you have written, you have done something in your life that makes you a criminal, so do you have something that you would like to get off of your chest? Come on Brian, we are all “family” here, you can tell us. Fess up and be set free.

    It is obvious what you were trying to do with your statement Brian. You were trying to cause the readers of your post to infer that I have a criminal background. Your statement is crafted in such a way as to cause the reader to assume that I must really “Want” to run for the office of mayor, but that I am not going to run for mayor because I have a criminal past. Brian, I don’t “want” to run for Mayor because I don’t want to “be” mayor. If I wanted to “be” mayor I would run for mayor. Why is that so hard for you to believe? Why don’t you run for mayor?

  43. Chris Sorey

    Butch – I skim your posts, and most probably do. You continue to claim you have toyed with me on the issues, and it actually seems like a high school argument among friends designed to close the discussion. You can have the last word. You spoke of laws and policies, and I will remind you that quite often a court has to go back and interpret what was intended, what it will allow or simply strikes down a law. You seem to interpret a lot for your own circumstances. Again, I will give you the last word.

    Bobby Franklin – I looked up the tax records, through the city web site, which took about 2 minutes. It was an easy task and I only did so because I was curious who actually lived in the city and who does not. Three pieces of property listed in the area with the same names on each. Robert and Barbara. Maybe none of those are you. Either way, you say you live in the city and that is good enough for me.

    Aunt Bea – You have me at a disadvantage, since I do not know who you are, but I will say that the last time I used my “detective skills” as you put it, was an individual who walked into a building to ask for directions and helped himself to three laptops on the way out. I made an arrest within 24 hours, which involved ID’ing the guy which was fun given that there was not anyone in the building or an eyewitness, took out warrants and then drove to Knoxville to arrest him and all the property which contained around $40k in data if you value the info that was on the computers, which were returned to the Columbian Government, British Aerospace and one other that I can’t recall at this particular time. I started with a still shot taken from a video camera a few hundred yards away. If needed, I would be more than happy to provide you with the proof to back that up. The guy pled guilty in April. Obviously, most of what I do involves aircraft in one way or another. I enjoy the job and have a great quality of life there. Have I seen you there by chance?

  44. Aunt Bea

    Mr. Sorey wrote:

    “Mr. Franklin, I would think it is safe to assume that you don’t live in the house you own in MJ either, and it is most likely a rental. Not trying to get a big argument going on that topic, or your suit. Just an observation.”

    If being told by Mr. Franklin that he does in fact live in the city were “good enough for you” seems to me that it would have been easier to just call or email him and ask, “Mr. Franklin, do you still live in the city?”

    You make an awful lot of other assumptions about folks — their motivations, intentions — and they are just that untested assumptions.

    Congratulations on your big arrest.
    But it just seems to me, though, that one who works in some branch of law enforcement would know that the best way to end up with a bogus arrest is to let your prejudices lead. If you really want the “evidence” to prove your conclusion, it most likely will.

    Your interpretation of Mr. Franklin’s tax records, your eagerness to announce your obvious conclusions based on baseless assumptions are rather telling.

    Just an observation.

    Aunt Bea

  45. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    You are somewhat right about interpretive law. I am always suspicious when people have to take what is stated in clear text and find a hidden meaning behind it. I agree, sometimes laws can be very nebulous, but after all of these years you would think that we could develop a clear picture of what the law actually says and not need to “interpret” the law. But even in cases where one is interpreting the law, the effort should be to ascertain the true meaning and intent of the law, not to revise it based on personal opinion and conjecture. Interpreting law is vastly different than basing positions on personal opinion. When you interpret law properly you are basing a position on what you believe the law was intended to say based on what is written and not based on what you think it ought to say because of your personal beliefs and convictions.

    As far as your comment about my interpreting a lot for my own circumstance, please back up what you say. Where have I improperly interpreted the law?

    As for your comment about my toying with you…I notice you failed to answer my questions and you didn’t accept my challenge. Hmmm. It’s okay, Chris, I understand. If you ever really want to discuss or debate the issues please feel free to make a challenge.

    Chris, I have to say, that I honestly believe you probably are a good detective. You seem to have the right kind of mind for the job. In all seriousness, congratulations and well done on capturing the thief. I can’t stand a crook, and I am very glad you were able to catch him. I am sure that the owners of the computers are very happy as well. I have lost important information before, and I can tell you it isn’t fun.

    Chris, I find it amusing that you reference not knowing who Aunt Bea is considering how long you posted as common sense. Good try with the “Have I seen you there?” question. Funny stuff.

  46. Chris Sorey

    Butch, if you want to debate, run for office. If you want to stop by and talk, feel free.

    Aunt Bea – Not a big arrest, and definitely not the biggest I have made, but you took a shot at me, so I gave an honest response and backed it up. Surely you realize that some of our other friends on here would have sent that post to the censorship board for review. Was I fair in my reply? Was it so hard to figure out that we are talking about the city and I was curious who actually lives in the city and who doesn’t? But then again, what does all of this have to do with a man who stole some money which is what this post is titled?

    For what it is worth, he’ll never do a day in jail. He will be indicted, and at the court date his attorney will ask for felony diversion. He says he has never done anything like that in the past, and if his record is clean, he’ll get the diversion. Of course, then you have to realize that I am taking him at his word when he says he doesn’t have anything in his past. Since I don’t know him, I guess that is a baseless assumption for some.

    Have fun posting, and now that everyone is ready to type up a big response, may I suggest picking up the phone instead?

    You can get me at 615-579-6068.
    Block the number. I don’t care.

  47. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    It really is interesting how you want to be allowed to say anything you desire on this site without moderation or without backing it up with fact. Chris, you are not entitled to be able to post whatever you want on this site. In fact, you are not “entitled” to post on this site at all. It is a privilege to post on this site, when on this site you and I are guests. All that is really asked of you is that you refrain from making personal attacks and to keep your posts clean. Is that really too much to ask?

  48. Chris Sorey

    Butch,
    Are you serious? Have you actually read your own posts? Do you still not realize that this is all opinion and the DA, TBI, and Governor’s office don’t care what you think? My offer stands. If you want to come over and talk, stop by or call. Otherwise, be careful not to get hurt when you fall off of that high horse. I will leave the “priviledge” to you and yours.

    Aunt Bar – My apologies for not checking the middle initial when I looked at the tax records to see who actually has a dog in this race and who lives outside the city limits. Again, free speech is king, but it takes a different perspective when you don’t have a vote…

  49. Butch Huber

    Chris,

    The DA, TBI and Governor’s office shouldn’t care about my opinion or what I “Think”. They should care about what I “Know” and they should care about how my knowledge relates to the law. Chris, not one law enforcement agent has ever, even in the slightest, said that I am wrong (with the exception of one TBI or FBI agent who stated his personal feeling that elected officials had the right to talk about government business outside a properly called meeting all they wanted.) Being a law enforcement agent yourself, Chris, you know that the TBI, SEC, FBI and/or DA are not typically going to make it readily known that they are investigating a government official until the moment is right. You cannot confirm or deny whether there is an ongoing investigation or not, Chris, because you don’t know yourself. You can only “guess” that there isn’t an investigation. However, your guess could be wrong, couldn’t it, Chris? No matter, as long as I continue to post on here, and in other places, and as long as I continue to create a record of having informed the law enforcement agencies of the misdeeds of these politicians, and as long as I continue to inform the commissioners and the city manager and city attorney of what I am seeing, I am creating a trail. One day that trail will come in useful to me. One day there will be an accounting for the things that are done. On that day law enforcement agencies will be scrambling to try to play catch-up. Then my knowledge will matter to them, Chris, then my knowledge will count.
    There is a distinction between “feelings, opinions, and thoughts”, and “knowledge”. One of the things that I have come to realize in all of this is that law enforcement authorities tend to only get involved in issues of government corruption regarding elected officials when those elected officials step on the “wrong” toes or when they make a blunder that is so egregious and blatant that it would make the enforcement authority have to answer a lot of tuff and embarrassing questions over their inaction if they fail to act. One of the reasons they don’t otherwise act is because public corruption is so rampant at all levels of government. Read the paper, watch the news, check the internet…there are so many cases of government corruption going on that the TBI would do nothing but chase down corrupt politicians if they were to really do what is right. In fact, the best place to be if you are a crook is in elected public office…it is the only place in the world where you can steal thousands, millions and even billions of dollars and get away with it! Being a crooked politician actually gives you a hedge against prosecution as long as you don’t screw up and step on the wrong toes or expose a more powerful politician’s wrongdoings. That just adds more fuel to my fire that we as citizens need to do more to hold public officials accountable. Let’s face it, this society tends to re-elect more so than they elect. Incumbency tends to give the seated politician the upper-hand in this country. The philosophy is that the known evil is better than the unknown evil. So we re-elect. Rather than re-elect people of ill intention and/or bad behavior we need to run them out of office and put good, honest, up-right people in their place. Then, we need to get those we put in place to launch investigations to uncover the misdeeds of other politicians and bring them to justice. That would send a message to would be elected officials that if you intend to run for public office you have to have scruples.

    Chris, I don’t want to socialize with you. Like I would want to come to your home and “talk”. You have been nothing but arrogant and nasty to me and now you want to “talk”? You posted on this site equating me to a sexual predator and were moderated and that upset you. Now, to get around the moderation you want me to come visit with you or call you. Why, so you can be nasty to me without anybody there to moderate you? I don’t tend to have any desire to spend a lot of time with people who want to cast dispersions about a person’s character without any basis for what they say. Sorry, Chris, you are not the type of person I care to associate with. You have had little to nothing to add to any of the dialog on this site, so what would you add in a personal conversation? No, Chris, if you care to speak to me this is the forum. You have served me well as my antagonist on this site and that is really the only value you serve to me. If you don’t care to continue to provide that service then fine, go about your way. The other reason you want me to call or visit you, rather than debate me on this site, is because I trounce you every time you open your mouth on this site and you can’t take it anymore. I toy with you and you can’t do anything about it except take your ball and go home. You know it isn’t in your best interests, considering you are running for public office, to continue to get smacked around on this site. This site is continuing to set records for the number of daily clicks as compared to previous days, weeks, months, and you know that if you continue to debate me you will continue to make yourself look silly and help grow this site, neither of which will be good for your chances of getting elected.

    Oh, and by the way, regarding your detective work about Bobby Franklin’s residence…seems you chimed in when I didn’t get accurate information about Ray’s declaration of personal interests statement. What did you say then? Didn’t you castigate me for not doing enough research and admonish me for just jumping on what seemed to serve my purpose even though what I was saying was inaccurate? Now you want forgiveness for your sloppy detective work? You want forgiveness from Aunt Bea, but have you made an apology to Mr. Franklin for your blunder? No! Have you apologized to the other readers of this site for misleading them? No! The reason you haven’t apologized to Bobby is that you have ulterior motives to what you do. You checked the tax records, saw what you wanted to see, got on radiofree, made a false statement about Mr. Franklin because you thought it would somehow make him look bad. Now that you have been shown to be in error, you, like so many others who have come on here denigrating a person’s character, you fail to apologize to the person you have discredited and you fail to apologize to the readers for your misdeed. What you have done here reflects badly on your character. Not only are you prone to try to tear down another person’s character on baseless accusations, when caught you don’t have the personal character to apologize. And you want me to associate with you? Chris, the problem here is not that I am on a high horse, the problem here is that your moral center has sunk so low that anyone and everyone of even somewhat average character seems like they are on a high horse to you, the only difference I have made regarding you is that I have found a useful purpose for you where others haven’t. Oh yeah, Chris, stop whining about your free speech. You don’t have free speech on this website…you have tolerated speech. You don’t own this site. You should be thankful that Publius even gives you a chance to speak at all considering that you add nothing to the discussion and your only desire seems to be to launch personal attacks against those who do have something to add.

  50. Sonny Griffin

    Mr. Snyder,

    Thank you for answering my post.

    However, I do not understand your response. You asserted that these gentlemen have “criminal backgrounds”. How else can anyone read that?

    Someone that has a criminal background means that individual has a criminal record and has been convicted of a crime. We are not talking about misdemeanors here. We are talking about felonies.

    I have had a handgun carry permit for many years. As part of the procedure for obtaining this permit, a “criminal background” check was run on me to see if I had a criminal record. “Criminal background” checks are also run on any individual purchasing a firearm.

    I think all of us, including you, know that “criminal
    background” means having been convicted of a felony and has nothing to do with receiving a speeding ticket for five miles over or taking a waiter’s pen.

    I can see from your answer that you have no facts that these gentlemen have “criminal backgrounds”.
    The problem with innuendos such as this is that it appears in a public forum where all of their families, friends and enemies can see it. There will be those that will believe it is true. There will be those that, like me, know better.

  51. Butch Huber

    You know, I got to thinking about how much Chris Sorey and others have tried to get me to stop talking about what has been going on in this city, calling me names, saying that I am whining, etc. I have been on this site talking about real violations of people’s rights; rights that are guaranteed by the United States Constitution, the Constitution of the State of Tennessee, the Laws of the state, the Charter of this city, and the ordinances and resolutions of this city. Yet when Mr. Sorey gets moderated for posting something he obviously shouldn’t have posted, on a private website where he has absolutely no rights whatsoever, all he does is whine about censorship and free speech! Imagine what Mr. Sorey act like if someone he cared about was robbed of his or her rights by a public official! Do you think he would whine about that like I “whine” about how Rob was forced to resign, Hatton was forced to retire, and Bobby was illegally and illegitimately fired in retaliation for past action?

    Interestingly, others, who to my knowledge have never personally been censored, have also whined about censorship. They must be talking about the moderation of Mr. Sorey’s comments and my comments since they haven’t personally been moderated. Those whiners are the same people who also chime in and call me a whiner when I speak of the injustices that have occurred in this city and that are real and bona fide.

    Doesn’t this seem like a liberal biased double standard to you? It is okay with them when someone they don’t care about or someone they dislike is illegally and unjustly harmed, but by God don’t violate them or their friends or they will cry about their right of free speech. They whine about their rights even in situations where they actually don’t have a right to even speak at all. Entitlement mentality! “You have something, I want it for myself, therefore I am entitled to it.” Example: Publius has established this site, he owns it outright, he can control it in any way he chooses, he allows people like Mr. Sorey to post practically anything they want, and when it is necessary for him to moderate Mr. Sorey for having posted a very imprudent post all Mr. Sorey does is whine about his rights as if he is entitled to speak on this site.

    I have been moderated. I responded very aggressively to Mr. Sorey’s equating me to a sexual predator, and I was moderated. I am thankful that Publius moderated those posts. There is no place on this site for such talk. I apologized for having misused this site; Mr. Sorey whines about his free speech. There is the contrast, folks.

  52. Chris Sorey

    Butch, you have missed the point again. I didn’t invite you over for dinner, I gave you and anyone else who wants it my number if you want to talk or share ideas and info. Please don’t misinterpret that as an invitation to camp out on my couch and watch the game.

    As for an apology, I sent Bobby an email a few days ago. “Aunt Bea” asked why didn’t I just call him and ask where he lived. I’ll give you two guesses why she was so upset about it… Since I don’t recall ever meeting or speaking with him in the past, it would be a little odd to call someone up and ask where they live don’t you think? Again, 2 Robert Franklin’s in the MJ area and both are married to a Barbara according to the tax records, which took about 2 minutes to look up on the city website.

    You made a couple of references to when YOU and I were both censored on this site. Your argument is that we don’t own this site, so it is our priviledge to post here. Bobby Franklin was not allowed to speak on his behalf at a commission meeting, which we all know the vote was taken, and Robert’s rules were applied incorrectly. I believe he should have been allowed to speak. Butch please understand the difference in free speech and censorship.

    Butch, I have often said I am done with this, but you continually spew mistruths and then take swings at anyone who disagrees ever so slightly with you, then run and hide in the land of hypocrisy. The real reason you don’t want to call me? When I knocked on your door it took you about 5 minutes to answer, and then you could barely speak. In other words, you’ve got an internet black belt, and when you log off, it goes away. I think the Brad Paisley songs says it best, “so much cooler online”.

    My “opinion” of you Butch is that you are similar to British humor. I can watch a few minutes of it on PBS, but after that it gets old and I change the channel.

  53. Butch Huber

    Oh, please, like I am intimidated by someone as small and petty as you, Please. We finally know why you won’t debate me in a real discussion over real issues though, you are afraid of my “internet blackbelt”. Again, you speak of my spewing mistruths and taking swings at anyone who disagrees ever so slightly with you. Who have I taken a swing at for ever so slightly disagreeing with me? I have stepped up and challenged anyone who suggests that these commissioners get a pass for what they have done, but I believe that differing opinions are important in society. Like the saying goes, if you believe exactly the same as I do then one of us is unnecessary.
    I want to engage you online because that is where you stepped up to the plate to challenge me, Chris. You talk so tuff and act so arrogant on this site, but when you are challenged you run away.
    As far as the mistruths go….name them, Chris. Your such a big man, I say that if you don’t back up what you say you are nothing but a cowardly liar who spouts off at the mouth, but who can’t back up what he says. Like the saying goes, Chris, don’t let you alligator mouth get your chicken *** in trouble.

  54. Aunt Bea

    Mr Sorey wrote:
    >I’ll give you two guesses why she [Aunt Bea]was so upset about it…<

    There he goes again…

    Mr. Sorey seems to have missed the point.

    Aunt Bea’s First Point: In his posts, Mr. Sorey “makes an awful lot of other assumptions about folks — their motivations, intentions — ”

    Aunt Bea’s Second Point: When one leads with one’s prejudices, one’s conclusions are faulty, and may, in fact, prove slanderous..

    Mr. Sorey’s First Faulty Presumption: That Aunt Bea was “so upset”

    His Second Faulty Presumption: That he would have any knowledge that would explain Aunt Bea’s presumed upset

    I am reminded of the words of Rabbi Ben-Azai: “Prejudice is the reasoning of fools.”

    Have a nice day,
    Aunt Bea

  55. Joe Fleenor

    About Me:
    1. Male
    2. 26 yrs old
    3. Former Editor for The Chronicle of Mt. Juliet
    4. Born and Raised in Mt. Juliet
    5. Former Homeowner in Mt. Juliet
    6. Democrat, i.e. Liberal
    7. I’m posting this message while I’m “on the clock”

    I first found out about this website a little over a month ago and have been on here every few days reading over the comments that everyone posts. I enjoy reading them, not necessarily for the quality of information that is being presented, but rather for the comedic (probably not intentional) and passionate ways in which most all of you write.

    I’ve become jealous that everyone is being attacked and I’m missing out on all the fun. So, here I am, and hopefully I can get a rise out of someone.

    Butch – you’re obviously an extremely intelligent person, but your posts are so extremely boring. Your points are all very well thought out, and for the most case they’re legit, but condense those thoughts. I want to hear what you have to say, but I’m a slow reader and I don’t want to spend that much time reading.

    Bobby – remember me??? How dare you post messages on here why’ll you’re on the clock!

    Bryan – I hope you don’t mind, but I had a pool going on the over/under on how long you’d be working for the City. Let’s just say I won.

    Rob & Bobby – Let’s start another community newspaper. I think we could have some fun!

    Chris – I think I peed on someone’s fence one night after having a few too many (if you know what I mean). Does that mean I have a criminal background?

    War Jim Bradshaw for Mayor

  56. Chris Sorey

    Welcome to the party Joe. No criminal background for you, and no criminal background comments from me ever on this site. Just glad it wasn’t an electric fence 🙂

  57. Butch Huber

    Joe, I have tried to figure out how to say everything that needs saying in less words, it hasn’t worked real well for me yet. Although, I may have figured out a solution to your slow reading problem…I will try to write slower, maybe that will help.

    I am sorry that I bore you, Joe, that is not my intention. My intention, as I am sure you already have figured out, is to make sure the public is fully and inescapably aware of the issues going on in this city. I could make things more lively by beating up on Chris and Bryan some more but that is completely overdone now. Admit it Joe, you really do like our little skirmishes, even though it takes me a half hour to stop swinging.

    Thank you for admitting you are a liberal, facing your problem is the first step to recovery. Chris and Bryan can car pool with you to the liberal’s anonymous meetings if you need a ride….just kidding…kinda.

    BTW, Bryan is the one who thinks your granny is a criminal, not Chris. Chris knows she is.

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