Headlines from the Mt. Juliet News – September 26, 2007

ACLU lawsuit trial date set
Parents of a Lakeview Elementary student sued last year complaining about the “Praying Parents” group being allowed to meet in the school, about the school announcing the National Day of Prayer, and promoting “See You at the Pole.”

City officials pick animal control site
Year long search leads to prime city owned property
[which had already been considered and rejected at least once before]

Commission clears Elam of violation
[with a vote of 3-1, latest ethics complaint against Mayor Elam deemed to “unfounded.” It didn’t make any difference in the outcome, but once again, Mayor Elam voted to dismiss an ethics complaint made against her]

Vandals strike Del Webb community
[the word “anarchy” and pentagrams were spray-painted on the monument entrance]
Life imitates art. See Boomsday by Christopher Buckley. The rebellion of the young against the retiring boomers, driven by the crushing tax burden of paying for their pensions and health care.

Editorial teaser: The end of the Elam issue?
It’s too bad the editorials are never posted online. This one is worth reading. Key sentence:

“Apparently, for some reason, upper level city officials feel verbal agreements, handshakes and even a written agreement are not worthy of respect.”

Sort of sums up the current sad state of affairs in one sentence. Note to new city manager Robertson – watch your back!

– Publius



Filed under ethics

18 responses to “Headlines from the Mt. Juliet News – September 26, 2007

  1. Butch Huber

    About the ACLU lawsuit.

    I think it is time to rethink education in this country. There is a great book out by a man named John Taylor Gatto called the Underground History of American Education. It is a 200 page book that details a true picture of American Education from the viewpoint of a public school teacher…but not just “any” public school teacher….he was the New York Teacher of the Year. Anyone who wants an eye-opening experience should read The Underground History of American Education, also a book called “Dumbing Us Down” and another book called “None Dare Call it Education”. I started my study of the Public Education System by trying to find out why kids have to go to school for 180 days per year. I wanted to know “why” we had to go to school exactly 180 days each year; where did that number come from? I started by using the Internet to conduct my research. As I was conducting my research I was introduced to the books listed above, as well as many other items. My studies were a tremendous eye-opener. After weeks of study and contemplation, I determined that the entire education system, including “homeschooling” needs to be revamped. We have such a weak education system in this country it is pathetic. Anyone reading my posts, who knows anything about grammar and punctuation, or sentence structure, can tell that I didn’t do so well in these areas in school, but it really was the school that failed me. I was there! Why didn’t they teach me?
    By the time I finished High School the public school system had me convinced that I was sub par intellectually. Then, when I took the ASVAB to join the military I scored quite high. I went through some of the toughest schools the Navy had to offer and did very well. I say this to say, I was there, and I had the aptitude, so why didn’t I learn?

    The education system is not geared to “teach” children….it is geared to indoctrinate them. Don’t believe me…do your own study. Go back to the roots of “public education” and follow it through to today and find out for yourself. Once you are done I challenge you to prove me wrong.

    Liberal, anti-God, anti-family forces are at work in the public school system. That is not to say that there are not good men and women working in the public school system…I believe to be a teacher you have to have a desire to help others. (Any teachers reading this don’t think that I am saying anything bad about you. I appreciate what you do everyday and you are up against things that I can’t comprehend. I just know that you could do much more if you were free from bureaucracy.) I am saying that we should take the bondage off our teachers and let them teach and explore new methods for teaching. Education should be a rich and rewarding experience for both the teacher and the student; and it should draw the best out of both. With today’s technology we could have an interactive education system that is light-years beyond what we currently have, and it would cost less money than we spend today. The United States spends more than $700,000,000 on public education each and every year (I believe the number is actually over 1 trillion, but I can’t prove the remaining numbers yet.) and yet the system is getting worse and worse year after year in overall terms of output.

    I will give you an example of how it could be…

    When students are learning about space, they could be in a live, interactive Internet site where they are taught by the experts at NASA and by astronauts. The process could be proctored by expert teachers on a national, or international level, and at the local level one teacher could handle many more students than they currently can handle because there is less for them to do on a daily basis. This information could be piped in to local school buildings, but it could also be piped into homes across America at the same time. Those experts could be paid a lot of money for their time and we would still save money because they would be teaching as many as 50,000 to 100,000 students at a time. (You may be thinking, how could it be interactive with that many students? Computers could analyse questions asked by students and could identify common questions and then assimilate those questions for the speaker. He or she could answer many of those questions on-line in real-time, and many others could be answered by apprentice instructors in follow-up sessions or through website postings. I just put this in there for those hard-nosed critics who can’t see past their noses.)

    The problem with Public School is that it truly is a battleground. As a matter of fact, it is the biggest battleground on earth…the battle over the minds of children. All civilizations have come to the realization that it only takes one generation to change a culture…all you need to do is control the minds of children. Separate them from their parents and from influential people in their lives, eliminate God from their hearts and minds, and you can get them to do anything. Think of the Hitler youth.
    The ACLU does not want God in school. The ACLU cannot accept God; God in school exposes the lie and erodes their power-base. We didn’t come from a primordial ooze, we didn’t come from apes, and we didn’t show up here 4,000,000 years ago. The evidence of Creation is overwhelming, but if the ACLU allowed schools to teach of God and an intelligent designer their whole infrastructure would disintegrate right before their very eyes. They would lose their power base within just a few short years. Teaching children of a God Who loves them and Who worked them into His creation from the foundation of the Earth and Who gave them a destiny and a calling on their lives would enable them to make sense of their lives. They would understand “why” they must obey their parents. They would understand “why” they should behave. They would understand virtues like courage, commitment, loyalty, trustworthiness, honesty, sacrifice, restraint, truthfulness, dedication, and integrity…and they would have a reason to obtain those virtues. Teaching them of God would cause them to want to know “how” to live. They wouldn’t have the question of “why” are we here? They would know and understand “why” we are here.

    No, the ACLU will continue to use the law to violate the children and the families of this nation, it is time to take our schools back “and” our government back from the Godless people of our society and re-instill goodness in our government and re-instill responsibility in our homes. You can fight a battle with the ACLU, and you might win the battle, but you have already lost the war over traditional public education that is funded by tax money. Education needs to be funded through tax credits so that those who give money to education can control its content. Competition in education will create the best education system in the world. The Public Education is not worth fighting for…it isn’t a failed institution, it is a flawed institution. We need a new system that includes room for God and for the whole family. Who says that public education has to stop when you reach a certain age? Education could be made to be free for all of society and all the world for that matter. Education should be developed in a way that we have access to quality materials and accurate information on the Internet 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks per year, and it should be free of charge. I am talking about having it set up so that you can plug in to any teleseminar going on anywhere and you instantly become a student or where you can access archives of lectures or teleseminars anytime you desire. We can unlock information in ways that they haven’t even dreamed of up until now. All we need is to unlock the shackles organizations such as the ACLU and the NEA have placed on our institutions of learning.

    If I am right, and I believe I am, and God did create the universe, which He did, what sense does it make to continue to lie to our children about how we came into being and how the universe was created? That is like trying to teach a child to fix an engine using a cookbook. They simply won’t get it! You have to know the basics in order to understand the whole.

    We should eliminate the power base of the ACLU and the NEA by taking back our parental rights and freeing our children from the bonds of the American Education System.

    By the way, children need more hugs than books, and they need more kisses than term papers, and they need to hear “I love you” more than they need to hear about math or social studies. We have it all wrong in society. Children need to be affirmed for “who” they are in God’s eyes, not for “what” they are in society’s eyes. If you haven’t hugged your children today, go grab them and give them a hug and a kiss and tell them that they are wonderful and that you love them with all of your heart. Tell them that God made them special and that he has a purpose for them. Life is too short for us to continue to live the lies taught through our “public education” system; we are destroying ourselves by not acknowledging His power and His majesty and His purpose, and His presence, and His influence, and His calling on and in our lives.

    By the way, homeschooling is not the answer either…it is just the best answer we have up until now. The major differences between public school and home-school is that we are able to teach our children about God, we have control over their behavior, we can set familiar codes of conduct, we can determine what books our children learn from, and we can teach them the truth. That gives us a huge leg-up, but it falls way short of what could be achieved. Many criticize homeschoolers and say, “they have the same problems the rest of society has”, and they are right…we do have the same problems the rest of society has…we are not perfect, in fact in some ways we may be worse, we just have a different set of solutions. Parents of the homeschool movement in America are not funded, we have little discretionary income, we are made up of largely one income families, and we have our own challenges. Public Schools took over education starting in the 1850’s, and practically owned education by 1938. The Homeschool movement, or better said, the reintroduction of home learning in America, began in the 1960’s and didn’t really build momentum until the 1980’s and 1990’s. We are still working it out. Each day new dimensions and challenges are added to the “Homeschool” movement. For instance, today, many of the children who are kicked out of public school and private school are being homeschooled, which adds to the bad press for homeschooling.

    But all that having been said, we should work together to create an education system in America that really can teach and educate…not just indoctrinate.

    Butch Huber

  2. Butch Huber

    amazing…after four days of waiting, giving people who complain that I have hijacked this site a chance to post something of substance, depth, meaning, value..not a single post.

    I have invested a lot of time trying to get a point across…many have gotten it…some haven’t.

    There have been serious violations of public trust, I believe there have been violations of the law, and I believe that city employees have suffered as at least one local politician endeavors to further his or her career and agenda, yet there seems to be little will to correct the problems. It is difficult for one person to bring about change by himself.

    As people like Apolitical Observer, John R., and Common Sense attempt to persuade me to look the other way, make personal remarks, make fun of my name, call me names, attempt to ridicule me, attack me, try to turn my posts into something they are not, and try to avoid the issues by deflecting the focus from serious issues onto nonsense by saying that I am attacking the mayor, by saying that I have a grudge, by saying that I am involved because I am running for mayor, and by saying that I am just involved in this because my friends got fired, pushed out of government, many have watched…but not become involved.

    My question is…what will it take to get people to recognize that the only solution to the problem is for the citizens to take back their government through legal means, holding politicians accountable through shear numbers and through the legal system, and by becoming involved.

    I have made a sincere attempt to get people to step up and take action. I have pointed out the issues. I have filed a complaint (which was handled improperly and incorrectly by the city commission). I have done a lot to expose the issues. I have made post after post and not one post has been made by anyone, with substance, to refute what I have alleged. Not one counter-point other than things like Mr. Apolitical Observer’s admonishment that if I continue we could very easily end up back where we were before Kevin Mack took office.

    The violations, and the evidence thereof, is real, part of public record, and is very abundant…the duty of the commission, the city manager, the city attorney and others is clearly evident.

    Folks, the city government is broken, and unless good people are willing to take a firm stand the chaos and corruption will continue.

    I am contemplating my next step, considering whether I am even willing to take another action, and if I am, what that action might be. I am convinced that crimes have been committed. I am convinced that harm has been done to city employees. I am convinced that attempts have been made to get city government employees or officials to break the law. I am convinced that Hatton Wright, Rob Shearer, and Bobby Franklin have paid a price for doing what is right. But I am becoming convinced that there doesn’t seem to be many people who are willing to do anything about it.

    The lack of outcry is causing me to want to wash my hands of the whole issue and wait for my day to say, “I told you so”. Many have felt that I am only involved in this because I am going to run for city office. Well, when the next local election cycle comes and goes and you don’t see my name on the ballot, perhaps then they will admit that it must have been about something else.

    Would I go through all of this for Rob Shearer? Did you ever see Rob standing beside me at the mic? Would I have done this for Hatton or Bobby? Did you ever see them at the mic? I am willing to fight for those who can’t fight for themselves, but these men are quite capable of fighting for themselves…so it isn’t about that. I haven’t been involved because of my friendship with Rob, Bobby or Hatton…and I haven’t been involved because I am running for office…and I haven’t been involved because of a grudge against Mayor Elam. I have been involved because it is the right thing to do. I figure if a person won’t stand and be counted they should lose their voice. I want to be able to respect myself. I want to know that I have done my part as a citizen.

    It matters. What we do matters. How we act and behave makes a difference. How we treat one another matters. How we conduct ourselves as a society matters.

    In a lot of my posts I have launched counter attacks, said some nasty things, and I have manipulated some who have posted with wrong intentions and purposes. To many looking on it would appear that I am no better than those who would do harm. I am no better than anyone else…I may believe differently, but I am not better. I am willing to get down in the mud long enough to expose those who wallow there.

    In the future I am going to attempt to keep my posts civil and overlook the cheap personal attacks and shallowness that has occurred so far. Perhaps those with wrong intentions will realize that I can play their games and win, so maybe, we can have some meaningful exchanges on this site in the future. Maybe, if those with good character would post here more often we can drown out the negative and the vitriol and accomplish something worthwhile.

    I hope that more people will begin to post on this site and share and exchange ideas and ideals. I hope you will share this site with your friends.

    Working together we can create a better city and a better community. You don’t have to run for office to be involved and you don’t have to have official power to make a difference. You do have to get involved if you want to make things better.

    I pray that God will spark the hearts of those good people who live in this city and move them to action to bring about a better society.

    To anyone who I have wronged through my posts…I am truly and sincerely sorry. To those who have been offended…I humbly apologize. I would post the same posts again if I had it to do over again, I am just sorry if innocent people were offended or harmed. While I did make a few mistakes…I wasn’t acting emotionally, but with calculation and with purpose.

    The way we treat each other in this world is ugly. Why do we treat each other this way? Why do we as humans do what we know is wrong? Why can’t we be just be nice to one another? Why do we find fault “before” we find virtue and value in others?

  3. sudangreendog@yahoo.com

    Butch says, “amazing…after four days of waiting, giving people who complain that I have hijacked this site a chance to post something of substance, depth, meaning, value..not a single post.”

    Perhaps there has not been a single post because people aren’t obsessed with this issue. Butch, some people do have jobs and families they give their time to.

  4. Butch Huber


    Thanks for at least responding.

    Obsession? Obsession about what…our political leader breaking the law? The commissioners and mayor violating the sunshine laws? The mayor attacking Hatton Wright? The mayor forcing the City manager to resign and then lying to the press about what happened? The Mayor trying to get city employees to violate the law and give special dispensation to a developer? The mayor acting under color of office to benefit her employer? They city planner being fired for…(tell me again, what did he do wrong?) The mayor hiding a six page complaint from the city manager? Which issue do you think I am obsessed with?

    I have been obsessed before…this is not obsession.

    I am deeply concerned, though.

    I guess if there is an obsession it would be that I want to see my government work the way it was intended…is that wrong?

    I take it the issues don’t mean much to you.
    That to me, is sad, very, very sad. Let me know when you are directly affected by the illicit actions of local politicians…perhaps I will have some extra time to help you.

    Butch Huber

  5. Common Sense

    Oh, don’t disagree with Butch now. Butch is single handedly saving us from ourselves because we haven’t taken the time to think for ourselves. He has put a lot of effort into his manifesto’s against MJ, and if you go up against him, he will claim that he suckered you into the argument.

    Note to Elam, and anyone else he is whining about, whether you deserve it or not: Butch is against all levels of authority, and I was informed that he recently posted on the neighborhood web site where he lives complaining about the home owners association, and wanting to change the management. Poor Butch wanted a fight and went looking elsewhere when he couldn’t get one here.

    Butch, if it makes you feel better, I will continue to debate you, but I might need to have a few glasses of whine, sorry, make that wine, to even up the odds. If nothing else, I can read it to you and put tone of voice into it so that you understand the sarcasm, and not mis-in-ter-pret what was meant by the sarcasm.

    On second thought, I’ll probably just continue to read the first few sentences that you write and then skip to the next comment. Unfortunately, you usually reply to your own posts.

    Seriously Butch, take a breath and relax, the sky is not falling and another election day wil come.

  6. Butch Huber

    Sounds like you are sucking on sour grapes, common sense. What’s wrong…did you find out that you are less challenging than you thought? Did I pull the rug out from under you just when you thought you were winning? Did you think you had me on the ropes? Do you like how I just feigned enough weakness to give you hope…to keep you going, to string you along? Are you a little embarrassed that I made a sucker out of you? Don’t know what is coming next do you, common sense? Was my last post just intended to draw you back in? You don’t know which end is up anymore do you, Mr. Common sense?

    Although I was not the one who posted about the association management,
    I guess you feel that I can’t have a say in the management of my own neighborhood now…is that it, common sense?

    I guess, just like taxes, I must pay my association dues and allow people like you to have control.

    You sure sound like a liberal…are you a liberal, Mr. Common Sense? I think you must be. You post baseless accusations…like a liberal. You have been protecting a liberal mayor…just like a liberal would. You try to deflect substantive dialog with silliness…just like a liberal. You don’t care how you get your way, just “that” you get your way…just like a liberal. Yes, Mr. Common sense…I believe you to be a liberal.

    I’ll tell you what…I will supply the Whine, because, based on the your cheesy posts, I am sure you can supply the “Cheese”. We can have a party.

    Thank you for being consistant.

  7. sudangreendog@yahoo.com

    Butch say, “perhaps I will have some extra time to help you. ”

    Please get over your condescending self. You are the last person I would ever ask help from. You continue to make everyone out to not care if they do not jump on your bandwagon to fight everyone that isn’t a friend of yours in the Mt Juliet gov’t. I care plenty about what is going on in this world. I just happen to be more dedicated to other causes than to constantly beat a dead horse. That to me is
    ” is sad, very, very sad.”

    Common Sense, I think it is funny that Butch complained about the homeowner’s association. I have friends that live in Willoughby and it looks like Butch doesn’t abide by any rules and that is why he hates the homeowner’s association. To be honest I have heard Butch is pretty hostile. Imagine that!!!

  8. Common Sense

    Yep, it is obvious he is a little hostile, but remember, he is trying to save us from ourselves. He cracks me up, and then when he says he is leading me in I get a real kick out of it. There are a lot of important issues out there, but what a joke…

    Hey Butch, you can’t lie to yourself, so go get the meds!

  9. Butch Huber

    Common Sense…I knew you would doubt me…my conversation with Commissioner Justice is a part of public record. I led you right down the path. What you intended for harm was turned around on you. I threw out the bait and you took it hook, line and sinker. That is the kind of game you trolls like to play, isn’t it? You thought you were being so smart, and when it looked like you were winning you got all smug and puffed up. Old John R. thought you had me down for the count. I bet all your liberal buddies were slapping you on the back and congratulating you. I bet you were feeling really good about yourself. Then, wham, you were caught in the same trap you like to set. Stings, doesn’t it? You see, I knew I could count on someone like you to take cheap shots and say nasty things…you can’t resist. Liberals are so predictable.

    Have you noticed that you still avoid the real issues? Your liberal tricks are not working on me, are they?…I am still sticking to the issues, aren’t I? I bet that is irritating to your liberal disposition isn’t it?

    There has been not one post proving what I have said is wrong…just post trying to get me not to talk about it. What’s wrong? Don’t want the liberal agenda exposed? Why are you so ardently posting to attack me personally? It is because you have nothing of substance to offer. You know that I am right and you can’t stand that you can’t refute what I say, so you attack. ” Oh Yeah, well your breath stinks!” “Well you have a funny name.” “I heard you are hostile.” You liberals need a different playbook…you are getting to be boring.

    Let me see…elect a closet liberal Mayor…Elect a liberal commissioner…appoint a liberal city Attorney…pull legal maneuvers and break the law with impunity because you are in control of the process, join forces with a liberal press…liberalism is alive and well in Mt. Juliet.
    Remember, the Mayor’s and Will Seller’s favorite pick for city manager was an ultra-liberal activist from Massachusetts (The mecca of Liberals. Don’t you guys have to make a pilgrimage to Boston at least once in a lifetime?) What was that about?
    Your personal attacks only give me additional fodder to keep the issues going.
    You see, every good protagonist needs an antagonist or the story gets boring. Thanks for your antagonism. May I have another, Please?

    And no, I am not trying to save you from yourself: you so arrogantly think that I am talking to you all the time. I am talking to conservatives…you are just keep getting in the way. All I have to do is add one sentence in a post and you come running.

    The hostile thing won’t work either, guys. Oh, I get it…he is just a hostile guy…the only reason he is concerned about the issues is because he is “hostile”. Find one person that I have attacked unprovoked…I dare you!

    He doesn’t follow the rules of his home-owner’s association so that makes the mayor and him even. Yeah…they’re the same. Give me a break!

    You liberals talk about the other concerns you have…let’s hear them. Put your issues on the table, guys. Let’s hear your major concerns.

    You see…in time you will learn that you can’t dismiss the facts…it may turn out that nothing will be done about them….but, unfortunately for the liberals, the facts are the facts and they simply won’t go away.

  10. Common Sense

    You said, ” I knew you would doubt me” and my response is that I am not the only one. You reply to your own posts, and even get upset when others don’t. I haven’t persuaded you to look the other way, but I am trying to persuade you into thinking about your actions. If you have a serious issue, that is news worthy, then post it. From what I have seen, you have a lot of opinions, and nothing more. Yes, you are free to post your opinions as well, but be ready for debate if they are silly ideas such as when you said you believe the city should look into building fallout shelters and you are against building parks. (Again, the York park is a horrible idea at best) Then when I point out how absurd one of your ideas is, and it really is as in the case of the shelters, you fight back. I don’t blame you, but do you actually believe that you are suckering anyone into posting on here and leading them in? Remember, you can’t lie to yourself. When you have a few points that are worthy of reading, the next thing is a rant about society, so your posts are taken with a grain of salt and then forgotten quickly.

    My point is this, feel free to post whatever you like, but remember, you are the one who can’t handle the criticism. Sound like anyone else you know? Sellars seems to have the same issue. How many times did he threaten to have the police clear the room at the Willoughby HOA meetings when someone disagreed with him? Are you a closet liberal yourself or do you just have that much in common with Will? Maybe the whole Elam thing is really to discredit her so that you can get Will in there. Now I am thinking like Butch!

    One last comment you made deserves a little attention. You said “And no, I am not trying to save you from yourself: you so arrogantly think that I am talking to you all the time” and of course I will need to remind you that I offered to read these posts to you if you don’t understand them. Save us from ourselves would not mean any one individual, but instead would be refering to society. And you homeschool?

    How loudly can I say it, again? The sky is not falling and there will be another election day. Elam is washed up due to the appearance of improper judgement (tried to word that nicely, we all know better), and Sellars will go away as well, since it is only a matter of time before everyone figures out who he really is. Fact is, nobody really ran against Sellars, as the incumbent didn’t have a lot of support and Will spent the money on signs for name recognition.

    Either way, why not do something constructive with all of that time you have. Go out and collect signatures of registered voters in the districts equal to 66% of the vote cast in the last election for that particular seat, and get a recall vote if you want to do something.

    But remember this Butch, the same free speech you use to put out an idea, is the same free speech I use, as a moderate conservative, to explain, debate, and discuss your ideas as well as anyone else. If Harold Feener posted on here about the proposed park, I would tear it apart. Nothing against you personally, but remember, what started this little post war between you and I was when you posted about the fallout shelters instead of parks, and that my friend, was irresistible.

    Now look what you have done, you have gotten me to challenge you for the longest post that won’t be read.

  11. Butch Huber

    This was the only post you have made so far that was even remotely…and I mean remotely…constructive. You see…it takes a little more than just ten words to say what needs said…doesn’t it?

    Common sense…you don’t even really want to get started on the homeschooling issue. (Just so you know, Common sense…these are the little things that I say that draw your fire. What I really am saying is “Please open this can of worms so that I may eat your lunch once again.”)

    I can’t believe you are a moderate conservative. You sound like a liberal…you talk like a liberal…you act like a liberal…I think you are a poser. You pose as a moderate conservative while you really are a card carrying liberal. Face it…you are a liberal. I am not sure there is a cure for that.

    Do I have to draw you a map? I have pointed to the information in intricate detail…I have told you where the information is….can’t you go read it for yourself?

    Ok, perhaps you are right….perhaps I need to take the time to really go through the issues and post the issue point by point, piece by piece…but that would take more than ten words common sense.

    You are not disagreeing with me…you are attacking me. If that is what you want to do than fine…you really don’t bother me as much as you would like to think you do…and all you do is make yourself look silly, childish and immature. If that is how you wish to look than you are succeeding.

    Putting me in the same camp with Will Sellers is rich…you seem to know so much about me…whose sign was in my front yard during election time? I will give you a hint…it wasn’t Will Sellers.

    Common Sense…I am willing to discuss anything and I am willing to debate anything…you seem to want to instigate a hostile battle…if that is what you want you are in luck because you have found a man who loves to do battle…I thrive on it.

    When you say that I reply to my own posts…do you mean that you think that I also post under a different name? I haven’t done that….I admit, I did think ab0ut it for a little while when there wasn’t anyone to antagonize me. I knew an antagonist would get more and more people logging on, but then John R., Apolitical Observer, Sudangreen, and you showed up…you will suffice for now. I do wish you would put up more of a fight though.

  12. Butch Huber

    Common Sense…yeah, I am talking to you specifically this time.

    You want me to list out the issues…let’s see if you will stay with me and act mature.

    Here is a question..one I hope you will answer. Let’s see what we can accomplish.

    I will start with one simple question, if you will answer that question, we will go to the next…fair enough.

    THE QUESTION: “Was it right for the mayor to take a position working for a local developer, a developer who had interests in Mt. Juliet?”

    Now, that is a straight forward question. Please return a straight forward answer so we can proceed.

  13. Common Sense

    Butch, it is not a question of is it right or wrong. It needs to be addressed in a specific incident scenario. She should have abstained from the votes involving them, but more importantly, she should have abstained from any ethics violations complaints made against her. If she had made the city and citizens aware of her employment, it might not have been an issue. Again, another election day will come or go get a petition started. Let it go or actually do something about it.

    OK Butch, my turn. You say you are not a tax and spend person, but when you wanted to build fallout shelters instead of parks, and then wanted to get grant monies to do this with, where do those grant monies come from? Taxes? Or do you think a private grant can be found. Please make sure to answer this, it should be entertaining to hold you to your ideas.

    I rest my case and as I did on the other topic, will let you have the last word, but remember, it is debate, and you are in no way capable of pulling me in to this than you are of convincing anyone that you have done so. As far as replying to your own posts, you have done so many times, and as far as I know, always under your own name. Are you paying attention? Look at what you have posted before you bother with this again. I am getting tired of trying to explain this stuff to you, when you can’t even keep up with what you have said or done.

  14. sudangreendog@yahoo.com

    Butch says “and all you do is make yourself look silly, childish and immature. If that is how you wish to look than you are succeeding” after he says “What I really am saying is “Please open this can of worms so that I may eat your lunch once again.”)”

    Do you just love to contradict yourself or something, Butch? I don’t know anyone but a child that would talk like that. You speak of being attacked and then you go on a rant about someone being a liberal after they have told you there are not. You also speak of being a Christian and from everything I have observed of you on this forum and from what I have heard, you certainly don’t come across as one.
    You also say, “you have found a man who loves to do battle…I thrive on it. ” That is really quite profound. Perhaps you should get a hobby or spend some time with your family. You sure seem to waste lots on this witch hunt of a blog your friend started.

    I think your whole beef against Mayor Elam is the fact that she is an intelligent independent woman. From everything I have heard and witnessed you certainly seem to act as if women are second class citizens.

    On an earlier post you say, “Find one person that I have attacked unprovoked…I dare you!” Perhaps we should go talk to your neighbors. Remember I have friends that live in your neighborhood and your reputation there isn’t very good either. Perhaps what provokes you shows your true personality.

    You also say, “He doesn’t follow the rules of his home-owner’s association so that makes the mayor and him even. Yeah…they’re the same. Give me a break!” From what I know of usual homeowner’s association rules–they aren’t that hard to abide with unless maybe you live in Williamson county. Mowing your grass and making sure your house doesn’t look like a dump is pretty simple for most. Also paying your fines is easy as well.
    Maybe if you stopped fighting everything you could be a happy person. Good luck!

  15. Butch Huber

    I am proud of you, Common Sense..most of your post was mature, adult, and mostly accurate and, in my opinion, your answer to my question was correct. Thank you.

    I sent an e-mail to Linda back when the story broke about her working for CRS advising her to take a humble and contrite approach with the public…(remember, Linda and I were friends. I didn’t believe she would be up to no good, I simply felt that she made a bad decision by not advising the public of her new position and letting the issue come out in the paper.) unfortunately, she didn’t head my advice and she acted all indignant and pious, and shocked that the public would question her integrity. She brought this on herself.

    I think it is a bad decision for any public official to work for a developer or any other entity that will have such an influence on the office. But I agree with you 100% in that it is not a matter of right and wrong. Good answer.

    I think you are stuck on the second point. I didn’t “draw you in” with the comment about fallout shelters. I drew you in when I praised Ray for posting and smacked you on the nose for taking pot shots. The comment about fall out shelters was not intended to suggest that we spend a lot of money on building bunkers or anything. That was the thing you zeroed in on, so I let you go for awhile…you are very good at spinning things and deflecting the attention from the true focus…but you didn’t “have” me at any point. The real point of my post was that we need to look at all things, not just things like parks. I am sure that you would feel at least a little more comfortable if you knew that there was an emergency preparedness plan in place for the city of Mt. Juliet. Be honest, if it were being paid for by Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, I am sure you would accept the gift, wouldn’t you…or would you be so stubborn headed that you would say, “we don’t need no stinking fallout shelters”.

    So yes, you were lured into this, you just didn’t know “how”. I told Ray that if he posted and anyone stated taking pot shots I would step in and take them out…what happened? You took a pot shot at Ray, I stepped in…drew your fire…and you didn’t go after Ray again…right? This is A + B = C kind of stuff. Once you took that bait and started running with the NBC fallout issue, and it appeared that I was going to lose, I knew that you wouldn’t be able to help yourself. You would have to go all the way, it’s your nature.

    But to be fair I will answer your question…and perhaps we can become more and more civil…you and I can disagree, without being disagreeable, can’t we?

    You said:
    OK Butch, my turn. You say you are not a tax and spend person, but when you wanted to build fallout shelters instead of parks, and then wanted to get grant monies to do this with, where do those grant monies come from? Taxes? Or do you think a private grant can be found. Please make sure to answer this, it should be entertaining to hold you to your ideas.

    Ok, if you are going to hold me to my ideas, they should actually be “my” ideas, Right? It was “your” idea to keep beating a drum about Fallout shelters. I admit, I didn’t state what I stated in a way that properly represented my point, but on several occasions, I attempted to project the point properly…you just wouldn’t accept that…you felt that I was backtracking…so you kept the issue spinning…at some point I knew that there was no way that you would come back to the main point…so I let you go. Now, you either didn’t realize that I was not as far gone as you were making out, or you didn’t want to recognize it because you thought you smelled blood and you wanted victory over me in a debate so that you could impress your friends. I realized what you were doing when you kept harping on the fallout shelter thing, so I let you go until you felt real sure of yourself…then, I let you know that the only reason you ended up at that point was because I let you take me there. Perhaps you and I can have a healthy dialog now.

    Although I have already told you that my point wasn’t really about fallout shelters, but that the point was about looking at all the factors before we blow all our tax money on sports parks and such, I will go down this path just a little way with you.

    There is a church that is about to donate 15 acres of land for a sports park for the city…that is the thing that communities are made of…you can build a city out of bricks and blocks…but a community is only made up of people. So yes, I think there are possibilities for private grant money that could be spent on things that would make us safer.

    The federal government is much less accessible to you and I on a regular basis, so trying to get them to stop taxing us is a much more monumental task than trying to keep the city commissioners from taxing and spending us to death. You and I both know that the feds will tax us, take our money whether we are represented or not, and spend it on whatever they want, Right? If we can’t get enough citizens to stop Mayor Elam from building her $20,000,000 gift to the YMCA, how will we ever get enough people together to stop the federal government from taking and wasting our money? So, “IF” they are going to take our money, doesn’t it make sense for us to work hard to get as much of it back here, in our community, as possible? Set aside the NBC fallout shelter issue for a moment, and just ask yourself if what I am saying about the money isn’t true. Now, where we spend that money is a different story, but that we should go after every dime we can, until we can change the Federal Government at least, simply makes sense to me. If you have the background you intimate, you know that the federal government allocates money to specific issues and that those dollars must be spent on those specific issues. (When I was in the military I was in charge of supplies for my division for a while…man, what an eye opener. You had to spend every dime each quarter whether you needed something or not or you lost some of your funding the next quarter…the concept was a good concept, {Zero based budgeting, Reaganomics, supply-side economics, etc} unfortunately, the application was not handled properly.) You also know that those people working in those departments are going to ensure that they pump up the importance of their issue so that they keep their job and don’t get phased out. And finally, you also know that that money is going to be collected and spent whether we take it or not. So, “If” there is federal money available for emergency preparedness, why would you leave it on the table?

    Again, I am not suggesting a 40,000 bed underground bunker, but ask Chief Floyd or the fire department if they would turn down $400,000 in federal funds to update the city’s emergency management system and see what they say.

    If you are saying that I continued one post from another…I am sure that has happened. If you are saying that I answered my post as if it was from another person, I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Now, it is my turn again. In Rob Shearer’s deposition he stated that he had asked the mayor who she was working for on several occasions and that she had refused to answer him. The mayor herself has said that she hadn’t revealed who she was working for because she was not ready to make it public yet. She was censured for calling Bobby Franklin under color of office for the benefit of her employer. I think it should be clear that Bobby didn’t know that he was talking to counsel for CRS when Linda called him. Linda stated under oath that when she was unable to sway Bobby when she made that infamous call to him, she then called Land-use attorney, Tom White to retain him to handle this issue for her employer.

    The question: Was it legal for her to call Bobby Franklin to try to effect a change on the requirements for Mt. Juliet Crossings and not inform him that she was calling as counsel for CRS?

    Common Sense, please answer the question instead of avoiding the issue. I will caution you though…if you keep answering my questions…you will eventually either have to admit that the mayor has in fact abused her official authority and should not be allowed to keep her position “or” you will look foolish…I guarantee it.

  16. Butch Huber

    Sudangreendog, it is hard for me to respond to your last post without exposing my neighbors. I could defend myself, but it would mean I would have to expose the issues, then other people in the neighborhood would know what really happened, and those people who are feeding you information and slandering me would be embarrassed. They can continue to hate me and say bad things about me, but I really don’t want to drag them through the mud.

    I will say this…you seem like a very bitter, mean, frustrated person who wants to try to defend what the mayor has done by attacking me personally. Attacking me won’t make what she has done right even if what you say about me is also right…you know what I mean? Plus, I am sorry to say…you are a coward. You take shots at people without revealing your identity…that is like shooting a man in the back from a dark alley.

    I have a different perspective on the “Christian” issue. Most people think of being a Christian as a docile, weak, timid, wimp…I don’t fit that description. The scriptures say that the fruit of the spirit is that we will be “slow to anger” not that we won’t get angry. So, I don’t fit in your box…now what? Does that mean that I am not a Christian? Do you hold the patent on the Christian image? Are you the measure of what a Christian should look like?

    When you say that living by home-owners association rules are not hard to live with, unless maybe you live in Williamson County…what you are saying in effect is that if you live in Williamson County you are excused from living up to the rules because everyone understands that they are hard to keep…but Butch has to live up to his home-owners association rules because those are not so hard to keep. That is kind of hypocritical, isn’t it? Shouldn’t things be black or white? If you are doing 51 in a 50 zone…aren’t you speeding? Does it matter where you are when you are speeding? Aren’t you breaking the law no matter where you are? I am sure you never do that, right? I bet you never break the speed limit, even by mistake. There is a difference between doing 51 in a 50 and abusing your elected office. Please stop trying to avoid the issue by trying to deflect the focus…I will continue to bring it back to where it belongs.

    You say that my beef is because the mayor is an intelligent independent woman and from what you can tell I treat women like second class citizens. You are a liar. I am sorry to have to be so blunt, but you are a liar. You are trying to cast an image on me that simply isn’t true and you have nothing to back up what you say. Therefore, I have no choice but to call you a liar…I hate it, but that is the fact.

    Still, not one person can say that I have attacked them unprovoked…I believe I know the issue you are speaking of…but it was not an unprovoked response….and it wasn’t an attack, I assure you.

    I spend a tremendous amount of time with my family, I have a great life, and where I spend my time and what I spend it on is my business, isn’t it?

    I am not sure…I could be wrong…but I think I saw a little bitty speck in your left eye.

  17. Butch Huber

    To All:

    Personal attacks such as those launched against me by SudanGreendog are not constructive in any way. I believe the intention of this website is to provide a place for the sharing of public information and the discussion of public issues so that the public doesn’t have to rely only on a liberally biased media for their information.

    Sudangreendog seems to think that launching a personal attack is a reasonable response to my desire to bring the issues that exist in Mt. Juliet to the attention of as many people as possible. Publius sent me an e-mail from someone on Sept. 1st, which I have included here; Publius didn’t include this comment because it was a personal attack. I communicated back with Publius and requested that Publius allow such things to go through when it is directed at me. You see, I realize the people I am dealing with…they want to be mean, nasty, and vile. These liberals choose to ignore the issues and attack the one who exposes the public actions of their friend, who is a liberal public official, rather than accept that wrongs have been done and that justice must prevail.
    It is not fun having mean and nasty things said about you, and I trust that Publius will not allow others to be attacked in such a manner, but as for me…attack away, but realize, “if” I should decide to retaliate, it will not be pleasant for those who attack me.

    From Publius:

    I’m not approving the following comment:
    Sue Martes | xxxxxx@hotmail.com | IP: 69.131.xxx.xxx

    I have to say I agree with Raytears. Butch Huber is on a witch hunt and constantly annoys the people of Mt Juliet because two of his friends were incapable of doing their job. Butch Huber goes on and on about the character of a man and I can tell you that his character is lacking. Just watch how he drags in late to the commission meetings and blabs about his “investigation.” Does he honestly think the TBI cares what Butch Huber has to say? They can interview any of the staff of the City of Mt Juliet and they’ll all tell the TBI that he is a few french fries short of a happy meal. From a very reliable source, Butch Huber is an angry soul with a bad temper.
    I am glad he is amused because the people of Mt Juliet have been amused by him for years.

    Sep 1, 2:32 PM — [ Edit | Delete | Unapprove | Approve | Spam ]

    but i thought you ought to be aware of it.

    I’m about to stop approving raytears as well… on the grounds that we should be discussing ideas and not waging personal attacks.


    This is the type of person that we are dealing with in Mt. Juliet. They don’t want to face the fact that their liberal mayor has violated laws, made bad decisions, harmed others, and has abused her office…so they attack on a personal level. Notice how they avoid the issues, never answering the really tough questions? Notice how they deflect attention by spinning things? Notice how they will take comments made with one intention, turn them into something other than what was intended, and then try to run it in for a touchdown? It’s as if they think that they are accomplishing something through their sophomoric behavior. To me, the only thing that they are doing is showing how immature and nasty they are…you be the judge. I think the evidence is there, as the above e-mail indicates, that Sudangreendog would not be able to launch such personal attacks here if I took offense to them. I am willing to go through their attacks so that you are able to see what they are really like.

    To those who might have felt that Publius was wrong for allowing these posts, don’t blame Publius…it is my doing. I am saying this because if I were a casual observer of this blog, and I wished to post, but was uncomfortable with the prospect of being attacked, I might refrain from posting. I would hate to find that my election to allow people to post nasty things about me was causing good people from posting their opinions and comments here.

    I could expose the real identity of some, if not all, of my attackers…I just have chosen not to as a matter of class.

  18. Butch Huber

    To the regular readers of Radiofree, have you noticed that my post from Oct 11, 2007 4:51, has gone unanswered? Did you notice how the exchanges here came to a dead stand still? Curious isn’t it?

    I was in a question and answer situation with Common Sense, during which I was systematically listing the issues surrounding the activities of Mayor Elam. Common Sense answered one question, but when I made the following statement:

    “Common Sense, please answer the question instead of avoiding the issue. I will caution you though…if you keep answering my questions…you will eventually either have to admit that the mayor has in fact abused her official authority and should not be allowed to keep her position “or” you will look foolish…I guarantee it.”

    :the posts stopped coming. Interesting isn’t it? Common Sense and Sudangreendog were hot on my trail, then…nothing.

    Common Sense did make a post that was designed to draw me into a commentary about the issues we are having with Dam’s so that he could then come back and say that he drew me into the diatribe. Amusing, wasn’t it?

    I think that I have proven that the efforts of my detractors has been nothing more than an attempt to shut me up and get me to let the mayor do as she pleases with the city.

    They have slandered me, tried to ridicule me, tried to malign my character, tried to push me off balance, and have used a myriad of the other tools that they keep in their liberal tool chest, but I am still here.

    They said that I hi-jacked this site. I have given them ample time and space to post their position pieces, yet they refrain. What was their point in making the assertion that I was hi-jacking this site if it wasn’t that they wanted a chance to speak? I will tell you; they couldn’t stand that I was on here telling the whole world the truth about their liberal Mayor. They were finally getting their way and they didn’t want me to be on here messing things up for them.

    I am glad they showed up on the scene, though. They kept things interesting, didn’t they?

    Here is what I think. I think they all know one another. I think they are part of the “Mt. Juliet Underground Liberal League”. I think they all realized that I was leading them on and playing with them to keep the posts interesting , that way I could keep the activities of the mayor in front of the public eye. I think that when they realized ( actually, I had to tell them.) that if they continued to answer my questions they would surely and fully expose their liberal mayor, they called a secret, emergency meeting to figure out how to deal with me. They had tried everything they knew how to do to shut me up and it wasn’t working. So, Stumped as they were, they sat and pondered. Then one bright, but terribly misguided, little liberal came up with a solution…”just stop interacting with him…we are feeding his fire!” Eureka!

    I bet they have thought that their plan worked as I have largely been mute for a couple weeks. In fact, even one of my conservative buddies thought that I had been muted by their strategy. I have simply been quiet so that I could come back and prove that they (my detractors) really have nothing to say, they just don’t want me to talk.

    So, now that we all know that calling me names, ridiculing me, making fun of me and my name, lying about me, making personal attacks against me, saying that I have hi-jacked this site, giving me the silent treatment, twisting what I say in order to deflect the conversation, and all their other tricks won’t work, can we now get down to the business of discussing what has really happened in this city?

    What has happened is that the Mayor has accepted donations from people surrounding a major development company in her bid for county mayor, failed to win the seat, took a position with the very company that supported her run for county mayor, neglected to inform the public of her new position, refused to answer the city manager when he asked her where she was working, called the city planner to attempt to get him to remove a requirement on her employer without informing him she was calling as counsel for the developer or even informing him that she was employed by the developer, when she couldn’t sway Bobby she called who is arguably the best land-use attorney in the area for the benefit of her employer (Against the best interests of the city), held a meeting with city employees to attempt to persuade them to illegally approve building permits for Pulte homes after Chris Ryan of Pulte homes said that if he could get the building permits he could put more money into buying a ladder truck for the city, single handedly went to the city manager and strong-armed him into resigning (an act that is highly illegal and that caused harm to Rob Shearer), violated the city’s personnel manual by exposing Hatton Wright as the target of a sexual harassment complaint, and once again violated the city personnel manual by withholding a six-page complaint from then city manager Rob Shearer. There may be more, this is just off the top of my head. Oh, somehow, Bobby Franklin, the city planner, was fired in the ensuing weeks after his having testified against her in the complaint filed against her by Hatton Wright.

    Folks, there really isn’t anything underhanded going on in city hall.

    Remember the process leading to the replacement of Rob Shearer? Remember the ultra-liberal city manager she selected as his replacement? That bow tie wearing dude from the north-east? Notice how the new city manager is immediately looking at the need for a property tax? Notice how he says that the city needs more parks? Remember the $20,000,000 gift the mayor is so determined to give to the YMCA?

    What has the antics of the mayor cost us? Well, it could go into the millions. Got your attention yet? First thing you need to do is keep your eye on the ball. The ball in this case is the $20,000,000 gift to the YMCA. This is the mayor’s pet project. Remember this phrase: “All roads in Mt. Juliet lead to the YMCA.” But to effect her plan, she needs friends on the commission. She has mini-me Sellers on her knee with her hand up the back of his shirt. He will now puppet everything she says. Bradshaw is an easy mark for Mayor Elam…all she has to do is put the YMCA in his district and you can put a fork in him…he’s done. That is three of five. She has gotten rid of the people who could really oppose her, ROB, Bobby, and Hatton. She separated herself from Ray and Ed with her antics lately, but remember, neither Ed nor Ray wanted Rob in office. Was all the strife that has followed Rob’s removal from office because the deal went sour? How will we ever know? Let’s face it, there is an agenda, but what of the cost.

    Let’s start with about Thirty million. I say that because the YMCA project alone will grow into a thirty million dollar tribute to Mayor Elam’s childhood memories. Then, how many dollars will be lost in unclosed deals with ROW projects and the like. The ROW deal to develop Curd Road was worth about $2,000,000. If they don’t close that deal it will likely cost you and I $2,000,000. How many other issues have been caused by this debacle?

    When politicians abruptly change course, as was the case with the mayor…one day she was singing Rob’s praises, the very next day she was demanding his resignation saying that the commission had “lost confidence in him”….look for the hidden agenda…it is always there.

    What about lawsuits? Could there be lawsuits? I am sure that there could be…in fact, I would be very surprised if there weren’t. Those are going to cost us? Then there is the antics that lead to all the investigations that have already occurred. Those investigations came with a cost. Then there was the settlement in the Dempsey case. (Don’t be misguided into believing that there was not politics involved in that mess either).

    At the end of the day, when all the smokes settles and the mirrors are shattered, it will become clear that this whole matter was just another notch in the belt of the liberal machine that is trying to choke the neck of conservatives in America. It is all about social engineering. “Big Brother knows what you need more than you do, so we will tell you what to do and we will provide all that you need, and all that you have to give up is everything you have and become a slave to the system. Bow before the government as it is your GOD!”
    Government Of Democrats…GOD!

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